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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Capps and his triple chin needs put on waivers and traded for a bucket of balls...

Maybe sign John Smoltz to a minor league deal and let him close...

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
I think it was 2 in a row after Milledge was called up right after we got home.



Some players are just losers and contribute greatly to a "losing attitude." Since Milledge's promotion, the Bucs are 2-8.

Consequently, Morgan has helped the Nats improve greatly. After being 30 games under .500 at the time of the trade at 23-53, they have gone 17-19 since.

All Morgan has done for the Nats is hit .385 with an .858 OPS, steal 16 bases and score 25 runs in 34 games.

I didn't like the trade then, and I like it even less now.

It reminds me of 1988, when the Pirates were rolling along with a decent record of 56-38, in second place, just a half game out of first when the Bucs traded the popular (among the players) Darnell Coles to Seattle for Glenn Wilson. The Pirates then lost the next four, 7 out of 9, and 12 out of 16 to find themselves 5 games out of first. They went 29-37 the rest of the way after the trade and finished 15 back. Many of the players contributed the downfall to that one move.

Incidentally, Coles went on to hit .292 for the Mariners with 10 HR and 34 RBI in 55 games while Glenn Wilson had 2 HR and 15 RBI.

We should start a pool to see who can come the closest to when Milledge has his next big blowup.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Substitute2 wrote:
I think it was 2 in a row after Milledge was called up right after we got home.



Some players are just losers and contribute greatly to a "losing attitude." Since Milledge's promotion, the Bucs are 2-8.

Consequently, Morgan has helped the Nats improve greatly. After being 30 games under .500 at the time of the trade at 23-53, they have gone 17-19 since.

All Morgan has done for the Nats is hit .385 with an .858 OPS, steal 16 bases and score 25 runs in 34 games.

I didn't like the trade then, and I like it even less now.

It reminds me of 1988, when the Pirates were rolling along with a decent record of 56-38, in second place, just a half game out of first when the Bucs traded the popular (among the players) Darnell Coles to Seattle for Glenn Wilson. The Pirates then lost the next four, 7 out of 9, and 12 out of 16 to find themselves 5 games out of first. They went 29-37 the rest of the way after the trade and finished 15 back. Many of the players contributed the downfall to that one move.

Incidentally, Coles went on to hit .292 for the Mariners with 10 HR and 34 RBI in 55 games while Glenn Wilson had 2 HR and 15 RBI.

We should start a pool to see who can come the closest to when Milledge has his next big blowup.


I must have missed when Milledge started pitching for this team.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:43 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Substitute2 wrote:
I think it was 2 in a row after Milledge was called up right after we got home.



Some players are just losers and contribute greatly to a "losing attitude." Since Milledge's promotion, the Bucs are 2-8.

Consequently, Morgan has helped the Nats improve greatly. After being 30 games under .500 at the time of the trade at 23-53, they have gone 17-19 since.

All Morgan has done for the Nats is hit .385 with an .858 OPS, steal 16 bases and score 25 runs in 34 games.

I didn't like the trade then, and I like it even less now.

It reminds me of 1988, when the Pirates were rolling along with a decent record of 56-38, in second place, just a half game out of first when the Bucs traded the popular (among the players) Darnell Coles to Seattle for Glenn Wilson. The Pirates then lost the next four, 7 out of 9, and 12 out of 16 to find themselves 5 games out of first. They went 29-37 the rest of the way after the trade and finished 15 back. Many of the players contributed the downfall to that one move.

Incidentally, Coles went on to hit .292 for the Mariners with 10 HR and 34 RBI in 55 games while Glenn Wilson had 2 HR and 15 RBI.

We should start a pool to see who can come the closest to when Milledge has his next big blowup.


Could you maybe give a reason how Milledge has caused this losing streak?? I mean other than your increasingly annoying hatred for the guy... He has been far from great, but he does at least occasionally put his bat on the ball which is more than we can say for your buddy Moss. For God sakes he is 24 years old. Has upside. How about you give it a rest. You are getting as bad as estrago as far as your constant ranting about the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:43 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Capps and his triple chin needs put on waivers and traded for a bucket of balls...

Maybe sign John Smoltz to a minor league deal and let him close...


The Red Sox never gave Smoltz a chance to pitch in relief. I don't think he will ever be a starter again, but i think he could try getting signed to be a reliever before he retires.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:56 pm 
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Some players are just losers and contribute greatly to a "losing attitude." Since Milledge's promotion, the Bucs are 2-8.



I dunno, has Milledge stunk worse than anyone else?

The lineup getting thrown out there every night is about as bad as you can find anywhere. Nobody draws a walk, no power to speak of, they're just puny all over.

The next very serious problem that needs addressed is the moronager. Does JR even have a pulse? He's about the very last guy you want to motivate, cajole, and inspire a young team, that's for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Capps and his triple chin needs put on waivers and traded for a bucket of balls...

Maybe sign John Smoltz to a minor league deal and let him close...


The Red Sox never gave Smoltz a chance to pitch in relief. I don't think he will ever be a starter again, but i think he could try getting signed to be a reliever before he retires.


I agree. I saw a bunch of his starts on TV living in Boston. I actually think he would be well served to be a long reliever vs a starter assuming he wants to play. I also think he would be better in the NL. Realistically though, I don't see him having much left and really think he should go home and wait to be called for the Hall of Fame.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:20 pm 
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BostonBuc wrote:
Colin21 wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Capps and his triple chin needs put on waivers and traded for a bucket of balls...

Maybe sign John Smoltz to a minor league deal and let him close...


The Red Sox never gave Smoltz a chance to pitch in relief. I don't think he will ever be a starter again, but i think he could try getting signed to be a reliever before he retires.


I agree. I saw a bunch of his starts on TV living in Boston. I actually think he would be well served to be a long reliever vs a starter assuming he wants to play. I also think he would be better in the NL. Realistically though, I don't see him having much left and really think he should go home and wait to be called for the Hall of Fame.


Yeah this probably would be the right thing to do, but i know if i was in his situation and baseball has been my life for the last 30 some years that i think i would try to get a team to pick me up as a reliever.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:32 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Animal wrote:
Substitute2 wrote:
I think it was 2 in a row after Milledge was called up right after we got home.



Some players are just losers and contribute greatly to a "losing attitude." Since Milledge's promotion, the Bucs are 2-8.

Consequently, Morgan has helped the Nats improve greatly. After being 30 games under .500 at the time of the trade at 23-53, they have gone 17-19 since.

All Morgan has done for the Nats is hit .385 with an .858 OPS, steal 16 bases and score 25 runs in 34 games.

I didn't like the trade then, and I like it even less now.

It reminds me of 1988, when the Pirates were rolling along with a decent record of 56-38, in second place, just a half game out of first when the Bucs traded the popular (among the players) Darnell Coles to Seattle for Glenn Wilson. The Pirates then lost the next four, 7 out of 9, and 12 out of 16 to find themselves 5 games out of first. They went 29-37 the rest of the way after the trade and finished 15 back. Many of the players contributed the downfall to that one move.

Incidentally, Coles went on to hit .292 for the Mariners with 10 HR and 34 RBI in 55 games while Glenn Wilson had 2 HR and 15 RBI.

We should start a pool to see who can come the closest to when Milledge has his next big blowup.


Could you maybe give a reason how Milledge has caused this losing streak?? I mean other than your increasingly annoying hatred for the guy... He has been far from great, but he does at least occasionally put his bat on the ball which is more than we can say for your buddy Moss. For God sakes he is 24 years old. Has upside. How about you give it a rest. You are getting as bad as estrago as far as your constant ranting about the same thing.


For example, two teams that acquired him did much worse after acquiring him...and two teams that dumped him got much better after dumping him.

As I said before, he will never contribute to a winning team. I was willing to give the guy a chance and let him show he had waht it took and earned a position, but the Bucs promoted him without earning it, just like the Mets and Nats.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:02 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
Yeah this probably would be the right thing to do, but i know if i was in his situation and baseball has been my life for the last 30 some years that i think i would try to get a team to pick me up as a reliever.


I know it's a lot easier said then done. However, I hope someone sits him down and says that its better for people to remember him as great not as "Fat Elvis"

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:35 am 
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Animal wrote:

As I said before, he will never contribute to a winning team. I was willing to give the guy a chance and let him show he had waht it took and earned a position, but the Bucs promoted him without earning it, just like the Mets and Nats.


He was hitting .333 in Indianapolis. What more would you have liked to have seen? Your unwarranted vendetta didn't make much sense before, now it's bordering on retarded. BTW, Lastings has raised his BA over 40 points in the 9 games he's been with the Pirates.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:25 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Animal wrote:

As I said before, he will never contribute to a winning team. I was willing to give the guy a chance and let him show he had waht it took and earned a position, but the Bucs promoted him without earning it, just like the Mets and Nats.


He was hitting .333 in Indianapolis. What more would you have liked to have seen? Your unwarranted vendetta didn't make much sense before, now it's bordering on retarded. BTW, Lastings has raised his BA over 40 points in the 9 games he's been with the Pirates.


More time at AAA. He basically has not played AAA much in his career. He needed more time there. Huge mistake by the Pirate organization. This is one move made by NH that was a mistake. Time will show it. I just hope he doesn't negatively influence Cutch or some of the other young players.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:39 pm 
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You guys are unbelievable.

The Pittsburgh Pirates of August, 2009, are nowhere near the Pittsburgh Pirates of June, 2009 in terms of being competitive on a major league level (not that the June team was a killer). I will not disparage or put the badmouth on any particular player or member of the PBC (except NH and the FO) because everyone knew this was going to happen.

Everyone on here was saying "blow it up", using words like "upside", and "when, if, whenever, 2011 is the year", and on and on and on.

Well, you've got your way. You now have a minor league club playing a major league schedule at PNC, and you're still not happy. Now it's "fire JR", "trade triple chinned Capps", "Milledge was overrated", "Moss stinks", and on and on and on.

You guys asked for it........you got it. So perhaps it's time to shut up.


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 Post subject: Perhaps You Misunderstood....
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:50 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
You guys are unbelievable.

The Pittsburgh Pirates of August, 2009, are nowhere near the Pittsburgh Pirates of June, 2009 in terms of being competitive on a major league level (not that the June team was a killer). I will not disparage or put the badmouth on any particular player or member of the PBC (except NH and the FO) because everyone knew this was going to happen.

Everyone on here was saying "blow it up", using words like "upside", and "when, if, whenever, 2011 is the year", and on and on and on.

Well, you've got your way. You now have a minor league club playing a major league schedule at PNC, and you're still not happy. Now it's "fire JR", "trade triple chinned Capps", "Milledge was overrated", "Moss stinks", and on and on and on.

You guys asked for it........you got it. So perhaps it's time to shut up.



I was against the Milledge/Morgan trade from day 1. That trade weakened us at 2 positions. We traded 2 better players for 2 lesser players...granted one with some possible upside, but too much baggage. That is the only major complaint I have had.


I think the only MAJOR problem is the weakened bullpen, which has contributed greatly to our recent losses, in addition to having an absolute loser in LF.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:22 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Could you maybe give a reason how Milledge has caused this losing streak?? I mean other than your increasingly annoying hatred for the guy... He has been far from great, but he does at least occasionally put his bat on the ball which is more than we can say for your buddy Moss. For God sakes he is 24 years old. Has upside. How about you give it a rest. You are getting as bad as estrago as far as your constant ranting about the same thing.


Yeah, it's all Milledge's fault...like his throw the other night from LF that popped out of Jaramillo's glove that would have been a 3rd out, he easily had the runner nailed...then the D'Backs went on to score a few more runs that inning and they lost...It was his fault totally...

Animal, this grudge against Milledge is borderline childish...

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
So perhaps it's time to shut up.


Maybe you should heed some of your own advice...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:47 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
You guys are unbelievable.

The Pittsburgh Pirates of August, 2009, are nowhere near the Pittsburgh Pirates of June, 2009 in terms of being competitive on a major league level (not that the June team was a killer). I will not disparage or put the badmouth on any particular player or member of the PBC (except NH and the FO) because everyone knew this was going to happen.

Everyone on here was saying "blow it up", using words like "upside", and "when, if, whenever, 2011 is the year", and on and on and on.

Well, you've got your way. You now have a minor league club playing a major league schedule at PNC, and you're still not happy. Now it's "fire JR", "trade triple chinned Capps", "Milledge was overrated", "Moss stinks", and on and on and on.

You guys asked for it........you got it. So perhaps it's time to shut up.

I just took a look at some stats. So far, it looks like the offense is about the same as before the trade deadline (4.11 runs per game in August, 4.12 runs per game in April-July; 7.17 OPS in August, .708 OPS in April-July). The starting pitching is also about the same (ERA 4.53 in August, 4.45 in April-July; Innings/Start: 5.912 vs 5.96). The only area that has been demonstrably worse is the bullpen (ERA 7.71 vs 4.02). I'm sure they are also suffering a bit defensively but I'm too lazy to figure out how to measure that.

An eight game losing streak at home is bad, no question. But the fact is the team, except for the bullpen, has been playing well enough to win most games. I'm not overly concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:56 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Steve1118 wrote:
You guys are unbelievable.

The Pittsburgh Pirates of August, 2009, are nowhere near the Pittsburgh Pirates of June, 2009 in terms of being competitive on a major league level (not that the June team was a killer). I will not disparage or put the badmouth on any particular player or member of the PBC (except NH and the FO) because everyone knew this was going to happen.

Everyone on here was saying "blow it up", using words like "upside", and "when, if, whenever, 2011 is the year", and on and on and on.

Well, you've got your way. You now have a minor league club playing a major league schedule at PNC, and you're still not happy. Now it's "fire JR", "trade triple chinned Capps", "Milledge was overrated", "Moss stinks", and on and on and on.

You guys asked for it........you got it. So perhaps it's time to shut up.

I just took a look at some stats. So far, it looks like the offense is about the same as before the trade deadline (4.11 runs per game in August, 4.12 runs per game in April-July; 7.17 OPS in August, .708 OPS in April-July). The starting pitching is also about the same (ERA 4.53 in August, 4.45 in April-July; Innings/Start: 5.912 vs 5.96). The only area that has been demonstrably worse is the bullpen (ERA 7.71 vs 4.02). I'm sure they are also suffering a bit defensively but I'm too lazy to figure out how to measure that.

An eight game losing streak at home is bad, no question. But the fact is the team, except for the bullpen, has been playing well enough to win most games. I'm not overly concerned.

The losing streak is just a symptom of the game of baseball. Plenty of teams go through winning and losing streaks. I remember when the Dodgers had a 11-game losing streak and ended up winning the NL West. The fact that the Pirates are going through one now is not somehow indicative of their talent level. Sometimes the losses that a team like this is expected to have just appear consecutively. Losing streaks are a drag to watch, but they happen. Big deal.

Oh, and anyone that thinks I'm trying to compare the Dodgers to the Pirates has lost all semblance of logical thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:59 pm 
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Here is what having a bad teammate looks like.

http://www.star-telegram.com/284/story/1527279.html

We haven't seen any of these articles in Pittsburgh.


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 Post subject: Re: Bucs vs Cards
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Thunder wrote:
Here is what having a bad teammate looks like.

http://www.star-telegram.com/284/story/1527279.html

We haven't seen any of these articles in Pittsburgh.


No, but they have seen them in Washington and New York. How long will it be until we see it in Pittsburgh.

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