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 Post subject: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Capitalism has hurt Major League Baseball.. that's my opinion. I have little interest in MLB. The same can be said for world soccer, yet I am still fascinated it.

The winner of the Champions League was Chelsea, who were not that great in the regular season. But because their owners have deep pockets they will always
finish in the top four to six in the "league table."

This is quite different than sports here in the states. It would be the equivalent of the Brewers, by virtue of having one of the best four records in 2011, qualifying for a
more prestigious world tournament the following year, and then winning it, despite having a disappointing regular MLB season in 2012. World fans would not care about
the Brewers' mediocre regular season performance.

I've had to shift my American thinking process, and having done so, I have become fanatical about soccer (European and world football.)

When Fenway Sports Group first became interested in purchasing Liverpool FC, the concepts of promotion and relegation had to be explained to some shareholders.
Relegation? It would cause Major League players to busts their tales in meaningless September games. Imagine if the three worst Major League teams were demoted to
Triple A. Seattle, Minnesota, and Houston would be gone, possibly forever from the big leagues. The Columbus Clippers would be a Major League franchise this season.

The Pirates would have been out of the Majors way back in 1995 (we were among the bottom three clubs recordwise) most likely never to return (this happened to
storied soccer club Sheffield United.)

Fans in Liverpool are scared to death that their American owners will screw up what is a great football organization. Bad ownership destroyed Leeds United, once a "top
flight" power. Liverpudlians feel that the Americans have no grasp of the club's history, only in it for business interests. FSG just fired the manager of the Reds (Liverpool)
a man who is a legend, a hero in Liverpool. I hope the Americans know what they're doing. Sports casters on London's Talk Sport are very supportive of FSG..
they always note the success of the Boston Red Sox.

I can't wait for the European Championship and Olympic soccer. @-@


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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:30 pm 
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WHO CARES??? WHAT ARE YOU POSTING THIS CRAP FOR??

Just kidding! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:09 pm 
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It's the nature of the beast.

'Capitalism' (incentivism) helps in large part to make most/all things reach optimal performance and then ends up eventually being that same thing's own worst enemy.

It doesn't take Karl Marx to see the duality.

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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:52 pm 
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It works on the global scale, it has to exist because it is a global sport.

We're sheltered from that reality here because we have our own sports bubble. No where else does there exist a MLB-level baseball league or a NFL-level football league, etc.. MLB doesn't have to worry about Japan out-bidding them for HS, college, and international prospects or already established MLB FAs. They also don't have to worry about then competing against those teams. A closed system like we have now wouldn't work if Japanese clubs ever had the cash to compete.

Lesser leagues and clubs (S. America, MLS, smaller European leagues, etc.) depend on the large "transfer fees" the top European leagues provide when buying up their best players. This is one of the major ways a smaller club or league can improve. It takes time, of course, and people become impatient with the process when they see a club like Manchester City go from middle-of-the-table to European powerhouse practically overnight because they get bought by someone with seemingly bottomless pockets.

Unless there's a salary cap and revenue sharing in effect on a global scale, this is the way it has to be. The clubs on top have a long way to fall, the middle-of-the-road clubs have to make all the right moves to move up (Tottenham is showing that it can be done), and the minnows will most likely always be the minnows.


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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:27 am 
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RTRJ, you're right about Spurs. They seem to know how to develop players, or can find talent. They did spend £5 million for Scott Parker's transfer fee. But Manchester City
spent £74 million on four players. >_<

If Chelsea hadn't taken the fourth Champions League spot it would've been interesting to see how Spurs would've spent that UEFA money. Hopefully they can keep Adebayor.
As for the Premier League, in general there are ten to twelve teams that could be relegated next year. If Newcastle loses the Senegalese striker they will be back in the middle
of the pack or worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:57 am 
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I guess Real Madrid is looking at Papiss Cisse. If that's true, Newcastle will most likely overcharge for him, and then buy somebody, or somebodies, to replace him using that money.

I don't think Newcastle were really that good last year. Even if they hold on to Cisse, I don't see another Top 5 finish happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:15 am 
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The so-called 'Champions League' is itself a product of over-weening commercialism. It should be for the teams that were the actual champions in each of the Leagues, not the nonsense of the first four. They are included solely to generate income in an artificial set-up that includes both league tables and play-offs.
And heh! why don't we have another one for even lesser clubs (4-8), call it the Europa League and play on a Thursday? TV would buy it!

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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
The so-called 'Champions League' is itself a product of over-weening commercialism. It should be for the teams that were the actual champions in each of the Leagues, not the nonsense of the first four. They are included solely to generate income in an artificial set-up that includes both league tables and play-offs.
And heh! why don't we have another one for even lesser clubs (4-8), call it the Europa League and play on a Thursday? TV would buy it!

Long one of my pet peeves. Of course, I still prefer the 48 team March Madness bracket and only 4 teams making the MLB playoffs. All of sports is about making money, regardless of the sport, or the location...


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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
Capitalism has hurt Major League Baseball.. that's my opinion. I have little interest in MLB. The same can be said for world soccer, yet I am still fascinated it.

The winner of the Champions League was Chelsea, who were not that great in the regular season. But because their owners have deep pockets they will always
finish in the top four to six in the "league table."

This is quite different than sports here in the states. It would be the equivalent of the Brewers, by virtue of having one of the best four records in 2011, qualifying for a
more prestigious world tournament the following year, and then winning it, despite having a disappointing regular MLB season in 2012. World fans would not care about
the Brewers' mediocre regular season performance.

I've had to shift my American thinking process, and having done so, I have become fanatical about soccer (European and world football.)

When Fenway Sports Group first became interested in purchasing Liverpool FC, the concepts of promotion and relegation had to be explained to some shareholders.
Relegation? It would cause Major League players to busts their tales in meaningless September games. Imagine if the three worst Major League teams were demoted to
Triple A. Seattle, Minnesota, and Houston would be gone, possibly forever from the big leagues. The Columbus Clippers would be a Major League franchise this season.

The Pirates would have been out of the Majors way back in 1995 (we were among the bottom three clubs recordwise) most likely never to return (this happened to
storied soccer club Sheffield United.)

Fans in Liverpool are scared to death that their American owners will screw up what is a great football organization. Bad ownership destroyed Leeds United, once a "top
flight" power. Liverpudlians feel that the Americans have no grasp of the club's history, only in it for business interests. FSG just fired the manager of the Reds (Liverpool)
a man who is a legend, a hero in Liverpool. I hope the Americans know what they're doing. Sports casters on London's Talk Sport are very supportive of FSG..
they always note the success of the Boston Red Sox.

I can't wait for the European Championship and Olympic soccer. @-@

Ollie, if baseball were truly capitalist, most of the small market teams would have moved to New York years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Capitalism destroying sports? (aka Soccer Talk)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:35 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Ollie, if baseball were truly capitalist, most of the small market teams would have moved to New York years ago.


This demonstrates insight into your idealogy, and shows ignorance of markets.

No, if baseball was fully capitalist, each player would be a UFA each year and get paid to value... and the contracts would be a lot smaller.

ZM

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