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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Penn State officials put the football program ahead of the victims. End of story. If they reported Sandusky when this happened back in 1998, he might have been in jail back then and victims might have been spared.

But they didn't want the program tarnished.

Yes, Sandusky committed the actual crimes, but whoever knew about it and didn't do anything about it (McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier) are morally bankrupt.

And they all keep passing the buck. I reported it to my superior. Well, guess what? Spanier can't use that excuse.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:30 am 
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Yes Sandusky committed the crimes but how many could have been prevented if Joe Pa or others had gone to the police? The problem was and is that they put Penn State Football ahead of those kids. Shame on them all.

When the Catholic Church had the same problem, it took years to get the higher ups to be resigned. Same deal here. It should not take even a week to get the enablers out now!

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
Seriously? PSU conducts an investigation of Sandusky in 1998 and, in a phone conversation, Sandusky admits to engaging in inappropriate conduct with a child in a shower. Yet, PSU allows Sandusky to conduct activities on-campus with children for years after that? After Sandusky was forced to resign because of this conduct? Explain to me how PSU administrators is no more culpable than the 10 year old who was anally raped. Portraying PSU as nothing other than a victim here is nauseating.

For years after 1998 when Sandusky admitted to engaging in improper conduct with children, PSU's administration allowed a freaking pedophile to use their campus and to interact with children. As of 2007, Sandusky continued to bring children on campus to football practices. As of last week, Sandusky was still allowed to use on campus facilities - after McCreary observed Sandusky anally raping a 10 year old.

If I offer my house to a known pedophile to host Cub Scout meetings . . . I'm providing a means to have that person engage in heinous acts. I simply do not buy the argument that "I didn't rape; therefore I am without blame" argument. It is absolutely disgusting to me that anyone would attempt to portray PSU's administrators as having zero level of culpability here.


This is the classic "its everyone else's fault excpet the perpetrator" that is so common in the US legal system. You really think that Jerry Sandusky stops raping kids if PSU locks him off campus in 1998? He simply finds another way to go about his business. Sandusky was not raping PSU students, your analogy doesn't hold. Sandusky simply chose to use the campus facility for his acts, the acts were not related to PSU business.

I am not making PSU to be a victim, my statement is that they are no more culbable. You could argue that Sandusky would have been caught years ago if a victim had come forward to police, the same argument that PSU could have come forward.

I have no issue with the disgust towards PSU, they should have come forward, but the villain here is clearly distinguishable from the PSU administrators.


I call "bullshit."

You can't find a single sentence that I (or anyone else) have written that suggests that "its everyone else's fault except the perpetrator." Not even close. I have yet to read one solitary sentence from any writer who suggests anything remotely close to arguing that Sandusky isn't an evil doer.

You fall back on a very tired theme . . . blame the legal system. Damning PSU officials for their actions has nothing to do with what is "legal" or "not legal." Its about doing the right thing; its about being a decent human being. Its about not running away from Jerry Sandusky when he is anally raping a 10 year old simply because Sandusky is affiliated with the PSU football program. What if McQuery found a janitor raping a 10 year old? You think that he would have hesitated for a second to intervene and beat the crap out of the janitor? Its about knowingly providing access to PSU facilities for years to Sandusky who has admitted to inappropriate contact with children when you know that he'll be in contact with children - after forcing Sandusky to retire when he admitted to fondling a kid in the showers. This isn't about the law. This isn't about lawyers. This isn't about absolving Sandusky. This is about decency. This is about common sense. This is about protecting children.

Plain and simple, it appears that numerous PSU officials chose to turn a blind eye because of (1) Sandusky's history with PSU; (2) potential embarassment to the program; (3) potential embarassment to JoePa. They chose to protect a pedophile and knowingly allowed a pedophile to use their facilities for years. They may not be criminally culpable but they are certainly morally culpable and I'm willing to bet that a settlement fund has been created because PSU's lawyers know damn well that they will be civilly culpable as well. My practice is primary devoted to defending manufacturers and employers and I preach the "personal responsibility" theme all the time. But, frankly, in light of what was known by PSU's officials in 1998, Jerry Sandusky shouldn't have been allowed anywhere near the PSU's campus. The fact that PSU not only allowed it but seemed to encourage it is incredibly stupid and damning.

And . . . no . . . Jerry Sandusky wouldn't magically stop being a deviant if PSU banned him from campus but that is not a license to stick your head in the sand and essentially conclude "we know that you are sexually attracted to children, you're going to rape them one way or the other, so you might as well do it here on campus with young children who are attending football camps."

Finally, any suggestion that places the same level of culpability on the failure of a 10 year old to come forward to report that he has been forcefully sodomized by an adult as adults who (1) knew Sandusky was a sexual predator and (2) saw him sodomize a 10 year old is patently ridiculous. I'll be waiting for JoePa to use that one . . . "if only other victims had come forward before 2002, we would have never been in a situation where we kept our mouths shot about the forceful raping of a 10 year old."

Sorry . . . but I have kids and there is no excuse for this type of conduct. None. If it was my daughter involved in one of these situations, I'd been on a plane to PSU and personally beaten the living crap out of these moral-less pieces of crap. Honestly . . . a program built on the notion that it is trying to develop young men . . . it is the ultimate hypocrisy. They deserve every bit of harsh scrutiny.

And, yes, there will be a special place in hell for Sandusky.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:07 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Penn State officials put the football program ahead of the victims. End of story. If they reported Sandusky when this happened back in 1998, he might have been in jail back then and victims might have been spared.

But they didn't want the program tarnished.

Yes, Sandusky committed the actual crimes, but whoever knew about it and didn't do anything about it (McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier) are morally bankrupt.

And they all keep passing the buck. I reported it to my superior. Well, guess what? Spanier can't use that excuse.

Here's my question: at what point do you stop saying "I'm reporting it to my superior" and instead say "I'm reporting it to the police"? Why must the reporting of a crime go up the chain of command before the proper authorities are involved?

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:40 pm 
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Willton wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Penn State officials put the football program ahead of the victims. End of story. If they reported Sandusky when this happened back in 1998, he might have been in jail back then and victims might have been spared.

But they didn't want the program tarnished.

Yes, Sandusky committed the actual crimes, but whoever knew about it and didn't do anything about it (McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier) are morally bankrupt.

And they all keep passing the buck. I reported it to my superior. Well, guess what? Spanier can't use that excuse.

Here's my question: at what point do you stop saying "I'm reporting it to my superior" and instead say "I'm reporting it to the police"? Why must the reporting of a crime go up the chain of command before the proper authorities are involved?


If the perpetrator would have been Johnny Janitor, the phone call would have gone to police immediately after McQuery beat the crap out of the guy and he would have been basking in the limelight for lambasting a deviant.

But . . . since the perpetrator was a "friend of the program," those in the chain of command chose to engage in ambiguity and subterfuge to protect their "friend."

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:49 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Willton wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Penn State officials put the football program ahead of the victims. End of story. If they reported Sandusky when this happened back in 1998, he might have been in jail back then and victims might have been spared.

But they didn't want the program tarnished.

Yes, Sandusky committed the actual crimes, but whoever knew about it and didn't do anything about it (McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier) are morally bankrupt.

And they all keep passing the buck. I reported it to my superior. Well, guess what? Spanier can't use that excuse.

Here's my question: at what point do you stop saying "I'm reporting it to my superior" and instead say "I'm reporting it to the police"? Why must the reporting of a crime go up the chain of command before the proper authorities are involved?


If the perpetrator would have been Johnny Janitor, the phone call would have gone to police immediately after McQuery beat the crap out of the guy and he would have been basking in the limelight for lambasting a deviant.

But . . . since the perpetrator was a "friend of the program," those in the chain of command chose to engage in ambiguity and subterfuge to protect their "friend."


One thing I disagree with is they were protecting a friend. I think the bottom line here is they were protecting the program. End of story. In fact, it wasn't even about Penn State University. It was about Penn State football.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Shame, shame, shame on the whole administration. Some egos (mainly the President) are taking a hit here. Clean house from the Prez all the way down to Joe Pa and his staff.

This article on SI says it all.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/michael_rosenberg/11/07/pennst.scandal/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t12_a2


Shame indeed, but lets be careful to not redirect all the anger and disgust away from the person who deserves it: Jerry Sandusky. PSU did not commit any crime here (nor is there much evidence of any coverup), their guilt lies on a moral level. There are always complex circumstances regarding the witnessing/reporting of a crime by family and friends, its never black and white. Of course something should have been done back in 2002 and that decision will likely cost Spanier, Joe, and others their jobs, but lets not demonize the wrong people. Its tempting for society to point the finger in many directions when a heinous crime is committed, but the pereptrator is solely responsible for his actions.

No crime. Why then are two administrators facing charges?

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:20 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
One thing I disagree with is they were protecting a friend. I think the bottom line here is they were protecting the program. End of story. In fact, it wasn't even about Penn State University. It was about Penn State football.


BINGO!!!! That's exactly what it was about...always has been over there and especially with Paterno.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:14 pm 
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Watching the hundreds of Penn Staters rally to JoePa's defense at his house last night, I have never been prouder to be a Pitt student.

PSU = Pedophilia Subterfuge Unlimited

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:56 am 
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Sad. I am getting more and more turned off by sports.

I think Jim Tressel and others may have done the same thing in such a situation. Wins are more imporatant than morals. I remember Billy Martin saying that he would start Hitler if
he could field and hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:04 pm 
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Last night's decision by the PSU BOT appears to be the first mature, responsible, adult decision made in this entire debacle.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:15 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Last night's decision by the PSU BOT appears to be the first mature, responsible, adult decision made in this entire debacle.


Joe's comments yetserday said it all, the program was and is #1 -

"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today,"

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:07 pm 
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I can't even make comments on FB because too many of my friends are PSU fans and are blaming the media and the BOT. Heck, I even saw one post blaming the victims.

For you lawyers on the board. This is from one of the victim's lawyers:

Quote:
"The board of trustees got it wrong. They should have consulted the victims before making a decision on Mr. Paterno. They should have considered these victims watch TV and are aware of the students' reaction and may not want to be associated with the downfall of Mr. Paterno. The school instead elected to do what it felt was in its own best interest at the time. Isn’t that what put the school in this position in the first place?"


Some of the people who commented on this are saying "exactly".

So the student's blaming the victims for JoePa's fall should be taken into account even though it is wrong for these students to do that.

This lawyer is doing one thing and one thing only. Setting the stage for a major civil lawsuit.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:49 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
I can't even make comments on FB because too many of my friends are PSU fans and are blaming the media and the BOT. Heck, I even saw one post blaming the victims.


Same here. I live 30 minutes from PSU so most of my friends are fans...I AM NOT! My one friend, who is an alum, posted a page they started saying how the rest of "us" don't get what it means to be a PSU alum. Unreal...I'd like to think regardless of how rabid a fan/alum you are that you can set that aside to see how egregious this error was on everyone's part at PSU. I'm so sick of hearing my Penn St friends saying "Joe did what he was supposed to do...followed the chain of command"...HEAD IN SAND!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:51 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
I can't even make comments on FB because too many of my friends are PSU fans and are blaming the media and the BOT. Heck, I even saw one post blaming the victims.


Same here. I live 30 minutes from PSU so most of my friends are fans...I AM NOT! My one friend, who is an alum, posted a page they started saying how the rest of "us" don't get what it means to be a PSU alum. Unreal...I'd like to think regardless of how rabid a fan/alum you are that you can set that aside to see how egregious this error was on everyone's part at PSU. I'm so sick of hearing my Penn St friends saying "Joe did what he was supposed to do...followed the chain of command"...HEAD IN SAND!!!


The Nile is a river that runs through Happy Valley.

The arrogance of PSU alums has always been ridiculous to me. Be proud, yes. But don't act like you are Harvard with a Top 20 football team.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:10 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
Last night's decision by the PSU BOT appears to be the first mature, responsible, adult decision made in this entire debacle.


Joe's comments yetserday said it all, the program was and is #1 -

"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today,"


There may be a time when he looks at himself in the mirror and asks "was it really in the best interests of Penn State University" to shove this matter under the rug and pretend it never existed? From a financial standpoint, I'm predicting that the amount of money that will be paid to those molested and assaulted by Jerry Sandusky will pale in comparision to the total donations made by all those who lose their jobs over this mess. From a reputation standpoint, the cost to PSU is staggering.

JoePa's goal may have been to serve the best interests of PSU . . . but the execution of his actions were not consistent with that goal. Indeed . . . in light of this unmitigated disaster . . . it seems rather clear that his actions have proven to be the antithesis of what was in the best interests of PSU.

Jerry Sandusky, known pedophile, adjunct professor, commencement speaker (2007), permissive user of PSU's main campus and permissive user of PSU's satellite campuses for football camps.

Yeah . . . its the media's fault. Poor Joe. He's the victim. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:13 pm 
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How about this for arrogance?: "I will retire at the end of the season. Therefore, there is nothing for the Board of Trustees to discuss. They shouldn't spend another minute on this."

Translation: "I am the boss. I will dictate my terms of departure. F___ you if you think otherwise."

Ummm . . . no. Bye, bye.

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:12 pm 
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How much do you trust Mark Madden?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 ... 86099.html

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:22 pm 
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Judge Landis wrote:
Watching the hundreds of Penn Staters rally to JoePa's defense at his house last night, I have never been prouder to be a Pitt student.

PSU = Pedophilia Subterfuge Unlimited


Judge, this is an uncalled for shot. And, not from a PSU alum. It would be quite easy to say...


...yeah, proud of Pitt because they hire coaches who only beat on the mother of their illegitimate child, while the students riot in Oakland, burning cars and smashing windows after another NCAA loss.

See how easy that is?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Penn State
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Judge Landis wrote:

I trust Madden as far as I could throw his fat ass.

Given the shocks we've already had, though, who knows?

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