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 Post subject: The Secondary
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:19 pm 
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Ike Taylor is a fine CB, but the drop off between him and McFadden or Butler or whoever will be the #2 is immense. Can Troy stay healthy? Likely not. Ryan Clark is a good tackler and all, but but as far as coverage is concerned, he's average at best.

The Steelers' secondary would be the Achilles Heel of this team, like it was for parts of the early 2000s, if the schedule wasn't jammed with teams that don't have much of a passing game to worry about (Browns x2, Bengals x2, Ravens x2, Jaguars, Titans, Seahawks, Rams, 49ers).

There will probably be only three or four games where it's likely going to kill us:

- The first, and most obvious, one is the game against the Patriots. I doubt I'll even be able to stomach the first quarter of that annual ass whipping.

- The second is Indy. We have, in the past, been able to give Manning trouble with our pass rush. We have also been completely torched by him, and with only one true starting NFL-caliber CB, even with the pass rush, I can't see him not going for 250-300 and 3.

- The Texans are a little bit of a wild card. If Ike can limit Andre Johnson, Houstons' lack of other options is going to make things easier. However, given the weakness of our CB depth, their secondary options might still cause some issues.

- The Cardinals are a bit of an unknown. If Kolb plays as well as people say he will, it might be a tough match up.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:22 pm 
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The playoffs might be a problem too.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Yeah, definitely. I think they were a bit fortunate last year to end up with the Jets and Ravens.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:43 pm 
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Broken thumb for Ike. Hopefully that can heal in 3 weeks because the rest of the secondary looks horrendous. :|


With the Ravens acquiring Lee Evans to partner with Boldin, we may have to include them in the "threats to embarrass our secondary" list. Joe Flacco is still their QB, though, and he has yet to beat us when Ben plays, if I remember correctly.

The Oline looked a mess last night, too. 1 or 2 series for Ben and he comes away with two injuries. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:58 am 
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The secondary and aging defense have been a problem since SB XLIII.

The D gets tired in the 2nd half, the DB's can't cover for 4 Q's. I'm terrified what will happen to the run D when Hampton leaves.

All that aside, the Steelers still have the juice to win 10 games this year.

I still think the Jets and Ravens have more juice though.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:34 pm 
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The schedule seems like it will be one of the weakest we've had in awhile having to play the NFC West and AFC South. 10 wins shouldn't be too hard, but 10 wins doesn't guarantee a playoff spot like it used to. 11 is much more comfortable.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:58 am 
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Not sure what the big issue really is here, I don't think its personnel or the D, but rather the NFL. The D is not a problem, its consistently one of the top 3 in the NFL. The league is set up to make elite QB's the only position that matters and at the same time, make high end passing attacks unstoppable. No D in the league can stop Brady/Brees/Rodgers et al. consistently. The Steeler schedule sets up quite well (only 1 legit threat (KC) in the final 7 games, most of the tough opponents at home) and we have the offense to score with anyone. I think 10 wins would be disappointing.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:10 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
The secondary and aging defense have been a problem since SB XLIII.

The D gets tired in the 2nd half, the DB's can't cover for 4 Q's. I'm terrified what will happen to the run D when Hampton leaves.

All that aside, the Steelers still have the juice to win 10 games this year.

I still think the Jets and Ravens have more juice though.


I'm curious why anyone would think the Ravens are better than us, please elaborate. I could buy the Jets, except everything hinges on Sanchez at the most critical spot.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Every year there are complaints about the secondary and offensive line and every year the Steelers go back to the playoffs or even win a Super Bowl.

Are they great? No, but they have won with them in the past and I think they can keep winning with them.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:18 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
I'm curious why anyone would think the Ravens are better than us, please elaborate. I could buy the Jets, except everything hinges on Sanchez at the most critical spot.


Simply because 'they're due' and they're Burgh's doppelgangers. Also, they can beat the Pats... the Steelers cannot (although the Ravens can't beat Indy or Burgh, so...)

Otherwise and generally I agree, the Ravens are below the Stillers. It's close, but they're almost mirror images.

Depending on the breaks (HF in the playoffs, matchups. injuries), it's not inconceivable for the Ravens to be left standing after the Steelers.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:08 pm 
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3 of the 4 losses last year were to pass-heavy teams, and it wasn't like the secondary put up a good fight. They were destroyed in each game (Brady 350, 3; Brees 305, 2; Rodgers 304, 3).

It's one thing to say, "These are some of the best passing teams in the league and they're going get their yards", it's another to be completely embarrassed each time. If they're going to win the Super Bowl, they can't be allowing the upper tier of passing offense to throw all day on them with the kind of success they had last season.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:17 am 
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RTJR wrote:
3 of the 4 losses last year were to pass-heavy teams, and it wasn't like the secondary put up a good fight. They were destroyed in each game (Brady 350, 3; Brees 305, 2; Rodgers 304, 3).

It's one thing to say, "These are some of the best passing teams in the league and they're going get their yards", it's another to be completely embarrassed each time. If they're going to win the Super Bowl, they can't be allowing the upper tier of passing offense to throw all day on them with the kind of success they had last season.


Except that they do win the Super Bowl if they don't turn it over on offense (same with the NO game). You're just not going to stop those teams, you may slow them down a bit. The Brady voodoo is a different story. Its a new league, you have to score to win.

Of course the new kickoff rule helps defenses quite a bit by making teams go 80 yards instead of 65-70.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:14 pm 
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I don't want excuses. The top ranked defense in the league that the Steelers have should be able to stop the best offenses. They do, unless those teams have a quality QB. That's the problem.

The secondary is a problem and it needs to be fixed. That's all there is to it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Timmons re-ups!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/68872 ... d-new-deal

Nice.

Also, not sure when, but... apparently the Ravens traded a mid-round pick for Lee Evans?!

Definitely thinking the Ravens have juice now.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:45 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
I don't want excuses. The top ranked defense in the league that the Steelers have should be able to stop the best offenses. They do, unless those teams have a quality QB. That's the problem.

The secondary is a problem and it needs to be fixed. That's all there is to it.


True. However, as Gregg Easterbrook pointed out in his latest TMQ, the other major problem which plagues the Steelers is their 4th Q Defense.

They allow as many or nearly as many opposing points in the 4th Q than they do in the previous 3 combined. Perhaps LeBeau backs off too much or the D is too tired to maintain intensity for all 4 Q's? Either way, the D has been 90% up to snuff compared to 08, but that 10% difference is what cost them a playoff spot in 09 and the SB last year.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:42 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
I don't want excuses. The top ranked defense in the league that the Steelers have should be able to stop the best offenses. They do, unless those teams have a quality QB. That's the problem.

The secondary is a problem and it needs to be fixed. That's all there is to it.


Isn't that the whole point, the top ranked defense in the league can't stop the best pass offenses, no one can.

Would I like an upgrade, sure. Is it possible, not in the salary cap era. Every team is going to have a weakness by design.

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:16 pm 
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No. It's not a foregone conclusion that top ranked passing offenses are going to get their yards, even against the best defenses. The flip side of that logic is top ranked defenses should be equally capable of shutting down those top passing offenses. The Steelers' defense is only as good as the QB it's trying to stop, given the evidence.

I would believe the whole "the NFL is designed to make elite passing offenses impossible to stop" stuff if there weren't teams that have had better success stopping those types of offenses.

I wouldn't at all be surprised to learn that the Steelers give up more points in the 4th quarter simply because teams are passing more in an effort to make a comeback.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:16 pm 
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That is pretty much BS. No one really stops those offenses, and no one really stops the QB's with the quick release on a consistent basis. Steeler's included.

I can't believe the bitching and moaning about a defense that gets you to the SB 3 of last 6 years.

The issue with the NO's, NE's, and current Pack set up is not the corners, it is schematic. Each of those teams attack the weak spot in the Steeler 2-deep where they ask the safety's and linebackers to cover the mid center portion of the field. This leaves a really good TE or slot guy open all day when you have quick read, quick release guys like Brady, Brees and Rogers. Unless Troy or Timmons is making unreal plays all game long, that slot is simply... open... against this defense. It is their Achilles Heel.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:49 am 
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Burying your head in the sand doesn't make the problem go away.

Firstly, the Steelers would have gotten blasted a second time if the Jets hadn't managed to beat the Patriots. The Steelers just cannot beat the Patriots with Tom Brady.

Secondly, the Steelers have made to these SBs despite the obvious lack of quality in the secondary. The Steelers rely on one thing and one thing only on defense against the pass, and that's obviously blitzing/pass rush. When they meet a team with the ability to keep the front 7 from getting a lot of pressure on the QB, whether it be a QB with a quick release or a very good offensive line/blocking scheme, the Steelers lose. Why? Because then the defense is forced to rely on the CBs, who simply are not good enough to be relied upon in that manner.

I'm not one to let a positive end result wipe clean any glitches that may yet exist. The Steelers' main glitch is the secondary. Other defenses DO stop these passing offenses. I'm not sure where this idea is coming from that it can't be done. No offense is unstoppable, but in order to stop the pass-heavy offenses, you have to have the right personnel. The Steelers do not have that personnel, so we'll continue to see top level QBs go for over 300 yards and multiple TDs every time.


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 Post subject: Re: The Secondary
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Umm....

Its called "Scheme".

They only ask their corners to do certain things in the defense because the key IS the pass rush at the LB spot. That is where the defense is focused.

They draft corners for their SCHEME. They don't draft cover guys who won't hit a thing or support run. They draft big guys who can keep plays in front and keep one shut down corner on the team (Ike, and if you don't acknowledge Ike as a shutdown, I'll know where you stand on knowledge), and the others to keep in front and support.

Quick release guys like Brady will hurt that defense.

And, to say they got to 3 SB in 6 years "despite" the secondary is... just ridiculous.

ZM

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