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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:42 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Of course, some people want you to ignore the tournament that is used to crown the national champion when judging teams and conferences.


Nobody is ignoring it, but a one and done format in college basketball is unprecise in determining a champ.

The NCAA Tournament, while fantastic and and better than the BCS, is not 'perfect'.

It is quite possibly, however unlikely, that a 16 seed could win it all, but that would not make that team (who would probably be sporting a terrible regular season record) the best in all the land (especially since they would be coming from a weak conference) or their conference the best of that year.

It simply means they played the best during the tournament.

Likewise, just because the Big East has laid a big egg in this years tournament does not mean they aren't (or were not this year) the best conference in CBB.

J_C_Steel wrote:
I guess it's meaningless that the ACC has produced 5 of the last 10 NCAA men's basketball champions.


It's not 'meaningless', but one should consider that it may be becuase Duke/UNC play in a weaker conference, therefore they normally get 1-2-or-3 seeds and have an easier route to the final rounds.

And due to their high exposure, they frequently get the best recruits and always remain on top. The Big East teams have to fight amongst one another for top recruits, Duke and UNC practically own the ACC and NCAA recruiting.

And like it or not, they draw ratings and we know that the NCAA is not exactly squeaky clean, so I don't doubt that they get some 'calls that go their way', etc.

I'm not saying Duke and UNC haven't 'earned their titles' or aren't good programs, because they obviously are, but they are the Yankees of NCAA CBB.

They win because they have a number of competitive advantages and to ignore this is absurd.

The ACC is not the best conference in CBB, it simply has two of the best (and perennial contending) teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:23 pm 
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There is a great amount of parity in college basketball. There are no truly great and dominant teams anymore. All the dominant players either sign out of HS or are gone after 1 maybe 2 years of college. Bill Walton had an interesting point on Dan Patrick the other day. He felt basketball should adopt the same rule as applies to baseball, in that if you go to school then you couldn't be drafted until after your junior year. However it may reduce some of the excitement of the tourny with so many close games in the early rounds and the ability of the mid major teams to compete. I think you might end up with 8 or 10 super teams that would distance themselves from the others. JMHO 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Perhaps my joy at watching yet another group of Big East teams bow out early is due to the hype and the claim that any of the top half of the Big East would dominate any other conference. I say b.s. The Big East is deeper due to having 16 teams. Play week in/week out in the Big 10 and there is going to be similarly tough competition with a few candy asses (like Iowa).

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:47 am 
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As a Louisville basketball fan I watched tons of Big East basketball. But I love college basketball in general and watched lots of other games as well. The Big East did not have tons of individual talent this year. Lots of hard working, overachieving teams. However this is a down year for college basketball in general talent wise. The Big Ten played a terrible brand of basketball this year. They have a dominant team(one of maybe 3), had another good team in Wisconsin, and would have had another in Purdue without the Hummel injury. Otherwise they don't have any other good teams. Michigan St was awful this year, as was Illinois. Penn St, with all those seniors was still awful. Michigan seems to be on the rise, but the bottom four were terrible. The ACC has two really good teams, and then a bunch of average teams. So even in a down year the Big East had far better teams overall(and yes, partially due to the larger league).

In the tournament, especially with so few dominant teams this year, anything can happen. I assure you that Marquette was by far the worst team out of the 11 Big East teams to make the tournament. But there they are...still standing. It doesn't mean anything! And it doesn't diminish the great season teams had even if they get upset in the tournament. The fun and excitement of the tournament is the one and done feel it has. It certainly doesn't mean a thing about conference strength or whether you had a good season or not.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:21 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Of course, some people want you to ignore the tournament that is used to crown the national champion when judging teams and conferences. I guess it's meaningless that the ACC has produced 5 of the last 10 NCAA men's basketball champions.

It is meaningless, at least to this discussion. What a conference has done in prior years is irrelevant to how it should be graded this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:18 am 
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With four sweet-sixteen games left and another three rounds to go the 'score' is tied at:

Big East: 2
ACC: 2

But let the record show that the two conferences will have teams facing head-to-head tomorrow night and that mighty Duke just got beat down in epic fashion by a Pac-10 team...

EDIT: Personally, I would find it hilarious if Marquette beat UNC and FSU was the last ACC team standing. Then the two 'worst' teams from the two conferences would be left.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:42 pm 
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ACC crushes Big East, but 'mighty' ACC falls to VCU...

ACC and Big East down to one team each, the same as two mid-majors and the Pac-10 (who had a down year). SEC has TWO teams left.

Maybe this one-and-done format tourney is not the best way to judge conference strength?

Nah...

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:30 am 
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There goes the champion theory for the Big East. UConn won 11 straight and deserved this championship. Not too bad for the 9th place team.

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:31 am 
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:lol:

Speaking of humble pie, who's ready to eat crow?

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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:20 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
:lol:

Speaking of humble pie, who's ready to eat crow?


I was talking about the Big East's past underperformance in the NCAA tournament. I was right about that.

This year, despite many Big East teams getting knocked out early, the best Big East team proved to be the best in the country. Well done by UConn.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:21 pm 
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N.B. -- I believe the ACC will be a much stronger conference next year. Should be interesting to watch.


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 Post subject: Re: Big East Basketball - a dose of "humble pie"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:02 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
:lol:

Speaking of humble pie, who's ready to eat crow?


I was talking about the Big East's past underperformance in the NCAA tournament. I was right about that.

This year, despite many Big East teams getting knocked out early, the best Big East team proved to be the best in the country. Well done by UConn.

Yes, UConn, who apparently was not even the best team in its own conference, is the best team in the country. I suppose you think that Butler is the second best team in the country. :roll:

Why can't you just admit that a single-elimination tourney such as the NCAA Basketball Tournament is a poor mechanism for identifying the best team in the nation?

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