Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:57 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:23 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am
Posts: 94
So the Steelers weaknesses last year were OL and DL. Those positions were essentially ignored on draft day.

What do they do? They draft a f'n RB in the first round, a LB in the third, a QB, a safety?

The only pick that was decent was the WR in the second round.

Horrible work this weekend by the steelers.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:46 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
From what I can gather, the Steelers had a short list of players who, if available, were to be taken regardless of need. Mendenhall was on the list. The guy was projected to be a top 15 selection on most boards, at 23, he could be a steal.

Sweed was projected as a middle first rounder, the Steelers got him in the second. Again, a potential bargain.

In my opinion the LBs are getting long in the tooth so I don't have a huge problem grabbing one in the third round. However, this comes a year after taking a LB (Timmons) in the first round. Which begs the question, is Timmons that bad?

Not sure I like the QB Humpal in the 5th. Perhaps one of the Iowa fans can chime in here? I'd just as soon go with a FA.

All in all, I like this years draft better than last years, unless Timmons proves me wrong. The OL could be an issue though. Better hope guys like Hartwig and Kemoatu (sp?) can step it up a notch.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't drafting based on need usually a bad strategy?

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:23 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
Willton wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't drafting based on need usually a bad strategy?


Yes, unless of course a "need" position can be filled with the best current player available. ;)


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5418
Location: Pittsburgh
Mayor Mystery wrote:
So the Steelers weaknesses last year were OL and DL. Those positions were essentially ignored on draft day.

What do they do? They draft a f'n RB in the first round, a LB in the third, a QB, a safety?

The only pick that was decent was the WR in the second round.

Horrible work this weekend by the steelers.


You think drafting for positions is a good idea? The Steelers have 5 Super Bowl titles that say taking the best available athlete works best.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4235
Location: Zelienople, PA
Very good draft if you ask me.

Their O-line is not nearly as bad as some make it. Especially now that Mahan won't be starting.

You almost always win taking the best available player, especially with the two that fell to the steel here.

They did address the O-line, and Bouchette likes the kid a lot. That says something to me.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 385
Worst Steeler Draft??????

You may be right. Not one player has played a down...and its the worst?

How about judging the draft 3 or 4 years from now before making such claims.

_________________
Image


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:53 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:10 pm
Posts: 2172
This was a really good draft. It seemed to me that the Steelers were really smart. If one of the elite lineman would have fallen to them at 23 then they probably would've taken them. However they didn't and Mendenhall did. He was an absolute steal there. And Sweed was ranked as a first round talent by EVERYONE. He fell to late second so also a steal. The Davis kid will be a great speed rusher. I'm a huge USC fan and he always killed them when they played UCLA. The only curious pick I saw was Dixon. Not sure what their thinking was there other than they do like to run gadget plays so maybe that was it. I don't think he projects to an NFL QB. But other than that I thought they had a great draft. History says that the Steelers know what they are doing...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:35 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am
Posts: 94
I often agree with drafting the best athlete available, but you do have to balance that with the needs of your team. If the best player available in the first round had been a quarterback, you think it would be wise to draft him when you have $100 million invested in Ben? It's not that black-and-white.

Also, the notion that the Steelers never draft for position is laughable. Troy Edwards is the first that comes to mind. In 87 three of the team's first four picks were DBacks because their pass coverage was so bad. Drafting Bruner in 95 was 100% for the position because they had no quality tight end to start. Chad Scott was a reach in 97 because they needed a corner so bad.

I see this draft as filling some luxury needs without filling any pressing needs (Except receiver).
Consider:

- The Steelers had one of the worst offensive lines in football last year (sack statistics show that). They lost the best lineman from that already bad line and have others in their final contract year. They did little to upgrade that this offseason, signing a castoff center and not drafting a lineman until the 4th round. That leaves the line very weak this year and even weaker down the road.

- The Defensive line is arguably their second biggest weakness. Judging by how they played when Aaron Smith went down last year, I think it was obvious how thin the Steelers are there. The Steelers didn't draft a single defensive lineman (Bruce Davis will be a linebacker in their 3-4 scheme ... straight from Steelers web site). How does failing to draft a single defensive lineman make sense?

- Wide receiver was their third or fourth biggest need. Drafting Sweed was an awesome pick. Their best pick of the day.

- Cornerback was their third or fourth (depending on how you view WR) biggest need. So much so that some draft gurus projected the team would take a CB in the first round. The Steelers didn't draft a single CB in the draft. How is that addressing their needs?

- So instead of drafting any DL, CBs or high-round OLs, they DID draft a running back in the first round, 2 linebackers, a QB and a safety late.

- Drafting a RB in the first round is always questionable since you can get good RBs in late rounds. Look at the Steelers' own Willie Parker, Bam Morris, Barry Foster ... look at the 1,000 yard rusher the Denver Broncos plug in virtually every year. As long as your line is good, you can find backs to run. The steelers have a weak line, have the NFL's leading rusher, yet they draft a RB first. Further, statistics show that RBs have the shortest average career span of any position, so that means the numbers say there is a reasonable chance the Steelers won't get full return on their investment.

Mendennhall could be a very good PLAYER but that doesn't mean it was a good PICK, not if you can get the same type of player later in the draft (which, at that position, you almost always can).

- Again, while ignoring the glaring needs at OL, DL and CB, the steelers drafted two linebackers (the position they spend the first two picks on last year). Is this an efficient use of their picks?

- While ignoring the glaring needs at OL, DL and CB, the steelers drafted a QB, the same position where then have $100 million invested in a starter and a very capable backup. Is it nice to have another option at QB in Dixon for the post-Batch years ... sure. But not while ignoring your glaring needs.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:39 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am
Posts: 94
bullishhitter wrote:
Worst Steeler Draft??????

You may be right. Not one player has played a down...and its the worst?

How about judging the draft 3 or 4 years from now before making such claims.


Obviously. Any draft day should be judged on that ... I'm talking in terms of how smart the picks were at the time they were made.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5418
Location: Pittsburgh
Mayor Mystery wrote:
I often agree with drafting the best athlete available, but you do have to balance that with the needs of your team. If the best player available in the first round had been a quarterback, you think it would be wise to draft him when you have $100 million invested in Ben? It's not that black-and-white.

Also, the notion that the Steelers never draft for position is laughable.

Yep, it sure is easier to win an argument when you make up what the other guy says. I didn't say that the Steelers have never drafted for position, and I don't think anyone else did, either. And on those rare occasions when they DID draft to fill a specific need, how did that work out?
Quote:
Troy Edwards is the first that comes to mind.

Now it looks like you've taken my side of the argument. The Troy Edwards pick is a poor argument in favor of drafting to fill a specific need.
Quote:
I see this draft as filling some luxury needs without filling any pressing needs (Except receiver).

I agree somewhat, not totally. A second running back is not a luxury in today's game, particularly when your team 1) emphasizes the run, and 2) has a number 1 back who is coming off of a broken leg and only weighs 209 pounds.
Quote:
- The Steelers had one of the worst offensive lines in football last year (sack statistics show that). They lost the best lineman from that already bad line and have others in their final contract year. They did little to upgrade that this offseason, signing a castoff center and not drafting a lineman until the 4th round. That leaves the line very weak this year and even weaker down the road.

I agree with you that last year's line sucked. I think that most of that can be blamed on the center, who blocked like a three year old girl. The center is the key to the entire offensive line. He makes the calls on blocking assignments.

There were seven offensive linemen taken before the Steelers had a pick. Do you really think that the eighth best lineman would have been all that helpful? Also, the Steelers have three tackles already. They believe that Kemoeatu (sp?) is ready to step in at LG. Their biggest need is a center. When was the first center chosen? With the 28th pick of the second roundl. Do you really believe that they should have taken that guy in the first round? Or in the second in place of a wide receiver who you already identified as their best pick of the day?
Quote:
- Drafting a RB in the first round is always questionable since you can get good RBs in late rounds.

Yes, that's right. You CAN get a good RB later in the draft. It's far more likely that you won't, though.
Quote:
Look at the Steelers' own Willie Parker, Bam Morris, Barry Foster ... look at the 1,000 yard rusher the Denver Broncos plug in virtually every year.

Look at Franco Harris. Or, more recently, look at Adrian Peterson. Look at Steven Jackson. Look at Larry Johnson. Look at LaDanian Tomlinson. Look at Shaun Alexander. Look at Jamal Lewis. Just to name six All-Pro running backs out of the 25 running backs chosen in the first round since 2000. Do you think that 24% of all running backs chosen in later rounds ever make All-Pro?
Quote:
The steeler's have a weak line, have the NFL's leading rusher, yet they draft a RB first. Further, statistics show that RBs have the shortest average career span of any position, so that means the numbers say there is a reasonable chance the Steelers won't get full return on their investment.

LOL, you're arguing against yourself again. The fact that RBs have the shortest average career span of any position is a argument FOR drafting another RB, not against it. Especially when the incumbent is undersized and coming off of a severe injury. And that weak line was blocking for the NFL's leading rusher. That weak line COULD run block. Either that or Willie Parker is better than Jim Brown ever was.
Quote:
Mendennhall could be a very good PLAYER but that doesn't mean it was a good PICK, not if you can get the same type of player later in the draft (which, at that position, you almost always can).

That makes no sense. Good players are what you want. You can trade the excess at a position if necessary, but, as I said, today's football requires more than one RB.
Quote:
- Again, while ignoring the glaring needs at OL, DL and CB, the steelers drafted two linebackers (the position they spend the first two picks on last year). Is this an efficient use of their picks?

Yes, because backup linebackers form the core of your special teams units. Were you pleased with the performance of the Steelers' special teams units last year? I'd say that their special teams were worse than their offensive line, which at least could run block.
Quote:
- While ignoring the glaring needs at OL, DL and CB, the steelers drafted a QB, the same position where then have $100 million invested in a starter and a very capable backup. Is it nice to have another option at QB in Dixon for the post-Batch years ... sure. But not while ignoring your glaring needs.
.
How many mid to late round All-Pro linemen or corners can you name? Any pick after the third round is a crap shoot.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:28 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am
Posts: 94
When the did draft for a specific need, how did that work out? Bad with Troy Edwards. Fine with Bruener and Chad Scott, both were legitimate NFL starters for at least 7 years. Excellent with the 87 defensive backs. Woodson is a hall of famer, Delton Hall was a two year starter before he got hurt and Thomas Everett was an all-pro safety.

I agree having two running backs is not a luxury in today's game. I'm all about two running backs, I just don't like using a first round pick on a back (notice I never said "Never draft a first round back.")
When you say "The fact that RBs have the shortest average career span of any position is a argument FOR drafting another RB, not against it" ... I agree. When did I say you shouldn't draft another RB? Show me that. I just said it wasn't smart to draft one in the first round. The fact you're admitting my point about RB career span is evidence to support MY point about drafting them in the first round. You'll need RBs every couple years, so you the numbers say you won't get the same return on your first round $$ at that position as you would at, say, one of the lines where the average career length is longer. True you might at any position, but statistically, it's most likely to happen there. But, again, I never said NEVER draft a back first. More of a general rule of thumb. Had they draft this RB first, the WR second and an OL or DL third, I could have lived with that. I wouldn't say it was the most efficient draft, but at lest they would have attempted to address the holes on their lines.

As for the OL, glad you agree it sucked. And I agree much of it was center. But Hartwig is a cast off who has an injury history. He should be an upgrade, but that hardly fixes everything. Even *if* things are OK this year, they still have some contacts up after this year, and you ignored my point about the OL down the road.

To answer your question, I never insisted on an OL in the first round. I never suggested a center period. If there was no adequate OL in the first round the go with the WR first and get an OL in the second or attempt to trade down (which they may have). A guard or tackle in the first two round was essentiall -- even third round I coudl take, but I definitely think they neglected the future of the position. That will have some affect this year and a definite affect next year. I think they could pick up a complementary running back in the third or later. You can still draft the best available player at one of a couple positions and not Troy Edwards yourself.

You ignored my points about ignoring DL and CB entirely. How can you honestly say that was smart? What possible defense can you give of not drafting a single defensive lineman for a team that's entire defensive line will be 30 or older next year? A team whose DL took some serious steps back when Aaron Smith was out. You, also contradicted yourself by saying the backup Linebackers are the core of special teams. I thought you weren't supposed to draft for specific needs?

It's obvious that you "have it out" for me. When I make good points, sound arguments and logical opinions you won't hear it because they are coming from me. It makes no sense for me to respond to your posts as it wastes my time, so I'm going to use the ignore button.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Mayor Mystery wrote:
It's obvious that you "have it out" for me. When I make good points, sound arguments and logical opinions you won't hear it because they are coming from me. It makes no sense for me to respond to your posts as it wastes my time, so I'm going to use the ignore button.

(1) You're assuming you actually make "good points, sound arguments and logical opinions." I would let other people be the judge of that.

(2) Your opinions are not unassailable, and neither are Sisy's. Making "good points, sound arguments and logical opinions" does not shield you from others pointing out where you may have gone astray. This is why we have debate.

(3) Hiding from those who criticize you (by using the ignore button) does not foster intellectual honesty.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:12 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Willton wrote:

(3) Hiding from those who criticize you (by using the ignore button) does not foster intellectual honesty.


Ha! When I think of "intellectual" anything, this message board is the first thing to pop into my mind...

The Unofficial Pittsburgh Pirates Message Board: Beacon of Intellectual Honesty in an Otherwise Failing World.

I like it...can we put it in the banner?? :lol:


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 385
Mayor

What is the point of posting on a board if everyone agrees? Have some thick skin. Goodness knows my skin is thick. Many of the people who post in here have blasted my opinions. Because they dont like what I say over and over, they set up an ignore feature. I find it funny because going on 16 years, the same people dont like what the Pirates have done over and over.......and over, yet they cant use the ignore feature.

Back to this topic, as stated before you cant judge a draft untill much later. On the surface it looks like Colbert ignored needs or filling weaknesses. Time will tell.

Everyone wants to make a point and feel that they are right. Guess what, untill the Pirates win, its hard to prove me wrong.

_________________
Image


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5418
Location: Pittsburgh
Mayor Mystery wrote:
When the did draft for a specific need, how did that work out? Bad with Troy Edwards. Fine with Bruener and Chad Scott, both were legitimate NFL starters for at least 7 years. Excellent with the 87 defensive backs. Woodson is a hall of famer, Delton Hall was a two year starter before he got hurt and Thomas Everett was an all-pro safety.

Well now, if you're going to say that drafting Woodson was an example of drafting for need, you're going to win the argument easily. Woodson was by FAR the best available athlete that year. You're not drafting to fill a specific need every time the best guy available happens to play that position. You're drafting to fill a need when you bypass superior athletes to pick a guy at a specific position, which is what you are saying the Steelers should have done this year. As I remember it, most people were shocked that Woodson was still around for the 10th pick. If you're going to say that Hall, Everett and Bruener were all examples of drafting for need, who was the best available athlete when those picks were made?

Quote:
I agree having two running backs is not a luxury in today's game. I'm all about two running backs, I just don't like using a first round pick on a back (notice I never said "Never draft a first round back.")
When you say "The fact that RBs have the shortest average career span of any position is a argument FOR drafting another RB, not against it" ... I agree. When did I say you shouldn't draft another RB? Show me that. I just said it wasn't smart to draft one in the first round. The fact you're admitting my point about RB career span is evidence to support MY point about drafting them in the first round. You'll need RBs every couple years, so you the numbers say you won't get the same return on your first round $$ at that position as you would at, say, one of the lines where the average career length is longer. True you might at any position, but statistically, it's most likely to happen there. But, again, I never said NEVER draft a back first. More of a general rule of thumb. Had they draft this RB first, the WR second and an OL or DL third, I could have lived with that. I wouldn't say it was the most efficient draft, but at lest they would have attempted to address the holes on their lines.

As I pointed out, 24% of all running backs chosen in the first round this century went on to make the All-Pro team. What percentage of backs in later rounds do as well? You MIGHT get a good back later in the draft. Most likely you'll be lucky if you get a kick returner or a third down guy. When you draft one in the first round you are far more likely to get a quality runner.

Quote:
As for the OL, glad you agree it sucked. And I agree much of it was center. But Hartwig is a cast off who has an injury history. He should be an upgrade, but that hardly fixes everything. Even *if* things are OK this year, they still have some contacts up after this year, and you ignored my point about the OL down the road.

To answer your question, I never insisted on an OL in the first round. I never suggested a center period. If there was no adequate OL in the first round the go with the WR first and get an OL in the second or attempt to trade down (which they may have). A guard or tackle in the first two round was essentiall -- even third round I coudl take, but I definitely think they neglected the future of the position. That will have some affect this year and a definite affect next year. I think they could pick up a complementary running back in the third or later. You can still draft the best available player at one of a couple positions and not Troy Edwards yourself.

I see no point to wasting a first or second round pick on the 10th best player at any position. And you keep insisting that they would have gotten a quality back later in the draft. Who? What are the odds that they would get a quality back in the mid to late rounds? Slim.

Quote:
You ignored my points about ignoring DL and CB entirely. How can you honestly say that was smart? What possible defense can you give of not drafting a single defensive lineman for a team that's entire defensive line will be 30 or older next year? A team whose DL took some serious steps back when Aaron Smith was out. You, also contradicted yourself by saying the backup Linebackers are the core of special teams. I thought you weren't supposed to draft for specific needs?

I can't say whether it was smart or not. I can say that any production you get out of a guy taken after the third round is luck. And I never said that the Steelers took those linebackers to fill a specific need. I said that those linebackers DO fill a specific need. For all you or I know, the Steelers took them because they thought they were the best players available. The contradiction is yours, because they do fill a need, and you are the guy who insists that you should draft to fill needs.

Quote:
It's obvious that you "have it out" for me. When I make good points, sound arguments and logical opinions you won't hear it because they are coming from me. It makes no sense for me to respond to your posts as it wastes my time, so I'm going to use the ignore button.

LOL. You give yourself way too much importance. I don't have it out for you, I merely disagree. I'm sorry that you only like to read "attaboy" posts. I'm not that insecure myself.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:30 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:40 am
Posts: 94
bullishhitter wrote:
Mayor

What is the point of posting on a board if everyone agrees? Have some thick skin. Goodness knows my skin is thick. Many of the people who post in here have blasted my opinions. Because they dont like what I say over and over, they set up an ignore feature. I find it funny because going on 16 years, the same people dont like what the Pirates have done over and over.......and over, yet they cant use the ignore feature.

Back to this topic, as stated before you cant judge a draft untill much later. On the surface it looks like Colbert ignored needs or filling weaknesses. Time will tell.

Everyone wants to make a point and feel that they are right. Guess what, untill the Pirates win, its hard to prove me wrong.


BH, I have no problem being criticized. I enjoy a good, respectful debate. It's the disrespectful criticizers I have a problem with. There's a history with two specific posters ... they're the total disrespect, never admit they're wrong on a single point, double-standard types. It's not worth my time to answer their criticisms because no matter what I say, they'll disagree, so I've decided to ignore them.

You, on the other hand, I welcome your criticisms or those of most others on the board.

As for this specific topic, I agree you can't totally judge a draft until a few years later. However, you can judge the decisions made on draft day immediately based on the info available.

I can't defend this draft when it totally ignored 2 of the team's 4 biggest needs and nearly ignored another.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 4:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
bullishhitter wrote:
Worst Steeler Draft??????

You may be right. Not one player has played a down...and its the worst?

How about judging the draft 3 or 4 years from now before making such claims.


Interesting position you are taking here BH... hmmm Maybe you should take your own advice for the boys across the parking lot.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm
Posts: 385
Piratefan13 wrote:

Interesting position you are taking here BH... hmmm Maybe you should take your own advice for the boys across the parking lot.


What advice?

_________________
Image


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Worst Steelers draft in a long time
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:11 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
bullishhitter wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:

Interesting position you are taking here BH... hmmm Maybe you should take your own advice for the boys across the parking lot.


What advice?


How about judging the Pirates 3 or 4 years from now when Huntington has had his chance to effectively establish his system?


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Charleston_Charlies and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits