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 Post subject: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:37 pm 
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Well, I had my first look at Gerrit Cole and he didn't disappoint. His outing was very good despite some early control issues. (a couple walks where he labored to find the find the strike zone.)

Cole was hitting 97 with his fastball. He also came in with a pitch about 94 which I am assuming was his fastball as well, but taking something off of it. He ended the evening going 7 innings and giving up 6 baserunners and 1 run.

I think he can use some more time in AAA just to make sure his control is where it needs to be but there is no doubt he has the stuff.

Other observations:

-I sat with a guy who accumulates stats for a scouting company. He was very impressed with the power arms on the Indy staff. Vic Black hit 99 in the 11th and all of them were throwing heat. It was really a showcase last night of what the Pirates are doing with their pitching in the system.

-Felix Pie and Jerry Sands signed autographs for my kids, but that was it. Ivan DeJesus Jr was really the only one who was close enough to ignore us.

-Tony Sanchez caught a good game, but did make one error that almost cost Indy the game. It was a strike three that he had to throw down to first and he pulled Hague off the bag.

-On a Yankee note, Curtis Granderson is doing a rehab assignment. He went 1 for 3 with an infield hit. He should be here for the rest of the weekend.

-Presley looked disinterested. I am sure he would rather be in Pittsburgh. He did hit a couple sharp balls. All the Indians in the lineup had at least one hit and one K except DeJesus who did not strike out.

-Not sure who Brett Carroll is, but he crushed the home run he hit.

-Sands did not look good at the plate (3 Ks). He looked like he was pressing. Pie reached base four times. He could help out if we have guys go down. He has legit MLB hands.

-The game was at the new PNC Field. Very nice minor league park. Not a big crowd, but a nice night as the rain held off. I will try to get some pictures up. We were 12 rows behind home plate so I had a good view of the movement on the pitches.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Pie started off very slowly but has been hitting well lately. I thought he looked good watching him in a few spring games.

Indy has a good team but there is a lot of filler material.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Thanks Bucco Boy.. 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:57 pm 
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Nice report. I saw Cole a few weeks ago in Indy and like my own game report suggested, I drew similar conclusions with Cole being impressive and at times dominant but the control obviously not being MLB-ready. Those 7 innings are by far the deepest he has gone in a game this season, even when he was keeping runs off the board in earlier starts he was getting pulled rather early due to pitch counts, like in the game I was at. I also liked what I saw from Tony Sanchez defensively. Sands and Pie have collectively made Indy a lot less interesting than I thought they would be pre-season. I really liked both acquisitions and thought they could provide some corner depth that has been severely lacking in recent years, and both have been total, complete flops. We had been discussing Sands here lately, he has been just mind-boggling abysmal at the plate for a guy that had dominated AAA so soundly twice that he already had an AAAA-type player label on him.

And on a completely pointless note, I had no idea that Indy had ran up a 24-11 record. I knew they were in first place when I saw them in mid-April, looks like they have barely lost any games since then. Especially impressive with the aforementioned Sands and Pie flops up to this point. Where is Dave Littlefield to hype up that his minor league teams have good records when you need him?


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:20 pm 
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I'm with you, Shark. I see Houston fans citing that their minor league system has the best record in baseball. How long has AAA Indy been good? Like, 10 years?

They are 24-11 and have like, one guy who really projects to make a big impact at the MLB level, a few decent relievers who might provide some value, and then a bunch of utility/AAAA guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:29 pm 
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Thanks for the report. Good you had a chance to see Cole.

And as for the minor league W-L record ... most meaningless statistic I can think of. Would you rather have a AA team that is 10 games below .500 but has Xander Boegarts and Jameson Taillon on the roster, or a AAA team that is playing .650 ball and features re-treads and has-beens throughout the line-up?


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:34 pm 
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I think you are being overly harsh calling these guys complete flops, especially in the case of Pie. There is no prize awarded for how someone does in the first 5 weeks of the season. They have played poorly over a small sample size, which does not correlate to being called a complete flop.

Pie has his OPS up to .583, which considering his very poor start and the fact that he is a speed and defense first type of player is not that bad. He has 11 steals in 14 attempts.

I'm not suggesting that either of these guys is especially valuable; just that their numbers will move closer to their career norms as the season progresses.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:49 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I think you are being overly harsh calling these guys complete flops, especially in the case of Pie. There is no prize awarded for how someone does in the first 5 weeks of the season. They have played poorly over a small sample size, which does not correlate to being called a complete flop.


I said they have been, not that they are. I'm still optimistic about both because I really liked both acquisitions. However, despite it being early, we're getting to about a month and half into the season and without major improvements that is going to start transcending just being a slow start. Especially given the age of these guys ... if someone like Sands doesn't completely annihilate AAA pitching as he is repeating there for a third time, and doing so with a whole lot of power like he's capable of, he's in trouble. That's why his mere two XBHs up to this point is very alarming in addition to not hitting at all. And with Pie, yes I agree that the context of what type of player he's expected to be is important, but I can't defend an OPS of .583 like yourself. That is abysmal. The steals are nice but up to this point he never really developed into the great stealing ability he was thought to have. I hope that you're right in that they end up closer to their career norms, it just needs to start happening soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 3:52 pm 
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How about if I told you that Pie has a .938 OPS in May? Could you defend that?


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:18 pm 
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What's your point? Good starts are good and bad starts are bad. A sample-size precaution should be taken when evaluating both of them. I'm merely saying that up to this point the two of them have been horrible. OPS figures of .583 and .445 in AAA are terrible regardless of if it has only been 100 ABs. I expect them to not be terrible at the end of the year. How optimistic I am that they will actually be interesting is a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Thank you for the game report BB. I can't wait to see Gerrit Cole in a Pirate uniform standing on the mound and throwing some heat (for strikes)!

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:23 pm 
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Well, winning in the minors can be misleading, or sometimes not. Depends on how dominant you are and what you're looking for from that AAA team.

Are you trying to develop a bunch of kids for the next level (Cole, Sanchez, Waldren, McPherson)?
Are you looking to have reliable call ups in case of injury (Pie, Ford)?
Are you looking to fix someone else's mistake, turn around talent (Sands, Oliver)?

From the looks of this team, and shear manner in which they are winning, it tells me you have a something to offer the big club. I can see Pie jumping in for a few weeks if another OF goes down to injury. I can see Oliver helping with spot starts. I can see Cole and Sanchez on the big club come June, July, September.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Yeah, my point about the W/L was basically just piling on Littlefield (can't get enough of that, right?), who used to notoriously hype that the Pirates farm system under his regime featured teams that were succeeding record-wise, making post-season appearances, etc. When in reality the farm system was in shambles with little to no promising talent but instead aging minor league veterans.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 5:44 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Well, winning in the minors can be misleading, or sometimes not. ZM

I think that a minor league team's W-L record is completely irrelevant, Mike.

Really, it does not matter in terms of what a prospect might bring to the major league team. If a 21-year old is doing well, but not brilliantly, as a SP'er in AAA, then his 6-7 record means nothing.

The fact that he has walked 23 and fanned 98 in 114 IP means a lot, while the "record" means zero.

The fact that a 22-year old OF prospect is on a team that is 12 games under .500 means squat (unless he is a catcher, I guess). The fact that the prospect is hitting .325/.410/.550 with a good walk rate, reasonable K rate, and 18 SB's means infinitely more than the team's record.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:10 pm 
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MiLB wins/losses matter only to the faithful fanbases which support the team and nothing else.

As Bucfan (and others) have said, what matters most is the development of the 'prospects'.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2013 6:16 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
What's your point? Good starts are good and bad starts are bad. A sample-size precaution should be taken when evaluating both of them. I'm merely saying that up to this point the two of them have been horrible. OPS figures of .583 and .445 in AAA are terrible regardless of if it has only been 100 ABs. I expect them to not be terrible at the end of the year. How optimistic I am that they will actually be interesting is a different story.


My point was that using the term "complete flop" was overly harsh. Especially in the case of Pie. But then you knew that because I had made it previously.


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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:24 am 
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Thanks for the report, BB. Like everyone who posted before me, I can't wait to see Cole throw strikes at PNC Park.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:17 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
MiLB wins/losses matter only to the faithful fanbases which support the team and nothing else.

As Bucfan (and others) have said, what matters most is the development of the 'prospects'.


Wins and losses are the reason the State College Spikes dropped it's affiliation with the Pirates. They wanted a winning team.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Report: 5/9 Indy vs. Scr/WB
PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 3:30 pm 
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And you can't blame them, but it was hard for the Pirate minor league teams to win anything when the pitchers were told to throw nothing but fastballs.


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