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 Post subject: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:36 pm 
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http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8098 ... &GT1=39002


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:17 pm 
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That's because they are. As much as it pains me, it's hard to argue with any rating that puts them last.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Mayor Mystery wrote:
That's because they are. As much as it pains me, it's hard to argue with any rating that puts them last.

Actually, it's rather easy, not the simplest of reasons being that Dave Golokhov has no idea what he's talking about. Any sports journalist that rates the Minnesota Twins as one of the worst franchises in sports is not a responsible journalist.

Unfortunately, that's par for the course with any organization named FOX.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:19 pm 
Willton wrote:
Mayor Mystery wrote:
That's because they are. As much as it pains me, it's hard to argue with any rating that puts them last.

Actually, it's rather easy, not the simplest of reasons being that Dave Golokhov has no idea what he's talking about. Any sports journalist that rates the Minnesota Twins as one of the worst franchises in sports is not a responsible journalist.

Unfortunately, that's par for the course with any organization named FOX.


It's not about that article dude. LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE. The Pirates haven't had a winning season in 15 years, they're last in attendance. Most fans hate the ownership. How can you defend the organization?

We all want them to win, but a good fan objectively evaluates his team and criticizes where it is deserved and praises where it is deserved. An apologist is not a good fan.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:31 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
How can you defend the organization?


I can defend the organization because the GM and President weren't here last year and seem to have a plan in place...They are making nice moves and decisions on the field, they've added nice parts without giving up much


Yeah its 15 years of losing...yeah yeah yeah, but Neal and Coonley have been here since October of 2007...

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:35 pm 
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
How can you defend the organization?


I can defend the organization because the GM and President weren't here last year and seem to have a plan in place...They are making nice moves and decisions on the field, they've added nice parts without giving up much


Yeah its 15 years of losing...yeah yeah yeah, but Neal and Coonley have been here since October of 2007...


No surveys that I've seen say Neal and Coonely are the worst GM and President in pro sports. This isn't about them. This is about the overall team. They do have a team in place, but until they win, don't you think the criticism of the team and the organization overall is fair?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:41 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
How can you defend the organization?


I can defend the organization because the GM and President weren't here last year and seem to have a plan in place...They are making nice moves and decisions on the field, they've added nice parts without giving up much


Yeah its 15 years of losing...yeah yeah yeah, but Neal and Coonley have been here since October of 2007...


No surveys that I've seen say Neal and Coonely are the worst GM and President in pro sports. This isn't about them. This is about the overall team. They do have a team in place, but until they win, don't you think the criticism of the team and the organization overall is fair?


Not totally...McClatchy was the one making the majority of the baseball decisions...once Nutting took more of a role last season things started to change...McClatchy stepped down, Littlefield was fired, Tracy was fired, a new facility in the Dominican is being built, and cut dead weight in Matt Morris...

Now if this upcoming draft comes and they take some crap safe, cheap pick...I'm certain a bunch of posters on here will be jumping ship, but from everything that has been done since the new GM and Co. have been here, have been positive, encouraging steps...

Calling this the worst run franchise over the last 15 years is true, but its deceiving since of the new regime change...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:48 pm 
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We have a new GM, Bonifay is his name...he'll right the ship. New Stadium, that'll turn the tide. New manager, McClendon...he'll get back to basics..Oh another new GM, Littlefield, he has a solid background....oh another new manager...Tracy...he's a winner....another new GM...another new manager....on and on it goes. All under the same roof of the Nutting family and their Old Money

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:56 pm 
By most accounts, Nutting has had a major role for 4-5 years. Last year it just became official.

Also, you can't pat Nutting on the back for cutting the dead weight in Matt Morris. It was only because of his approval of that trade that the team had that dead weight in the first place.

I also find it humorous that so many people on this board slam the past scouting and talent evaluation of the Pirates yet praise this new regime. Guess what ... virtually all the scouts, talent evaluators, etc. remain the same.

Until the team wins, it's fair to criticize them. You don 't win based on potential.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Any reasonable person would have to rate the Pirates lowest. Based on the last 15 years there's simply no competition. We haven't started this year well, and have not made any real changes to make us a winner NOW.

We all have hope that the new people will bring a new day but it will be years of development for it to show itself. I agree that NH is making small moves to do what he said he would do. Make the 2008 team better and build for the future. We need to see the draft and player trades later before we can evaluate the possible future team.

But for now -- not enough talent to win consistently, period. Bad is right.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:17 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I also find it humorous that so many people on this board slam the past scouting and talent evaluation of the Pirates yet praise this new regime. Guess what ... virtually all the scouts, talent evaluators, etc. remain the same.

One should not immediately assume that those scouts and talent evaluators were not good at their job. From my understanding, it was not the quality of the scouts that were the problem; it was the quantity.

Elmer wrote:
Until the team wins, it's fair to criticize them. You don 't win based on potential.

Tell that to the Tampa Bay Rays, who currently reside in 2nd place in the highly competitive AL East.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates rated worst franchise AGAIN
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:36 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I also find it humorous that so many people on this board slam the past scouting and talent evaluation of the Pirates yet praise this new regime. Guess what ... virtually all the scouts, talent evaluators, etc. remain the same.

One should not immediately assume that those scouts and talent evaluators were not good at their job. From my understanding, it was not the quality of the scouts that were the problem; it was the quantity.

Elmer wrote:
Until the team wins, it's fair to criticize them. You don 't win based on potential.

Tell that to the Tampa Bay Rays, who currently reside in 2nd place in the highly competitive AL East.


Like I said somewhere earlier, if you're given a certain job to go out and do it, you do it...If Littlefield told them to look for crappy #3 Left Handed Starters thats what they would do...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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