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 Post subject: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:41 pm 
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For those of you wanting to hear my take of the draft signings

From all accounts, the draft approach is different as far as taking the safe cheaper route. However the money used to do this was a result of trading the best player on the team and other solid players who were going to cost money to retain. The longest losing streak of all sports is a lock.

Given the economics of MLB, this is the way to rebuild. The cheapness of ownership has left the team with yet another rebuild plan. First you have to wait a few years to see if any of the prospects turns into stud talent. If that happens and thats a big if, is payroll going up to retain them? Like Mike Keaton said, sooner or later, you have to write the check. Only then will you know if the direction has changed and the true effort to truly win is being made.

I listened to sports talk radio all day this past Saturday. WMBS, Dutch, WEAE Starkey and 104.7 Rocco Demarro
Dutch and all of his callers were not buying, Starkey was sipping to Kool aid and his callers had mixed feelings and Rocco was kissing owerships butt, however, the majortity of his callers were not. I found that interesting being 104.7 is the Pirate radio station.

As I always say, follow the money. The only thing that has changed is where it is allocated. Had they not traded the players, ownership is not going to sign top tier proven free agents. They were not close to winning to do so. So what evidence has been given to you to think if proven home grown talent will be paid enough to remain or top free agents be attracted to sign with the Pirates?

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:55 pm 
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1. You don't understand baseball economics.

2. You should be a politician because you can spin anything.

3. Go away. You have no credibility around here. Period.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:59 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
For those of you wanting to hear my take of the draft signings

From all accounts, the draft approach is different as far as taking the safe cheaper route. However the money used to do this was a result of trading the best player on the team and other solid players who were going to cost money to retain. The longest losing streak of all sports is a lock.

You are so full of crap. THE DRAFT WAS ONE MONTH BEFORE ANY TRADES WERE MADE. THE DOMINICAN ACADEMY WAS STARTED MONTHS BEFORE ANY TRADES WERE MADE.

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Given the economics of MLB, this is the way to rebuild. The cheapness of ownership has left the team with yet another rebuild plan.

If you had said the INCOMPETENCE, you would definitely have a point. Cheap teams don't offer the Jason Kendall deal, don't trade for Morris's contract, and don't sign guys like Burnitz and Randa.

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First you have to wait a few years to see if any of the prospects turns into stud talent. If that happens and thats a big if, is payroll going up to retain them?

You don't have to up the payroll to retain them until you've already had six years of production out of them. By that time you have drafted and developed their replacements.


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Like Mike Keaton said, sooner or later, you have to write the check. Only then will you know if the direction has changed and the true effort to truly win is being made.

They have been writing checks since they traded for Morris. I know that it's inconvenient to your argument to note that deal, Sanchez's deal, Snell's deal, the Dominican academy, and so on, but those checks have been written.

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I listened to sports talk radio all day this past Saturday. WMBS, Dutch, WEAE Starkey and 104.7 Rocco Demarro
Dutch and all of his callers were not buying, Starkey was sipping to Kool aid and his callers had mixed feelings and Rocco was kissing owerships butt, however, the majortity of his callers were not. I found that interesting being 104.7 is the Pirate radio station.

Oh my, I must be wrong, because people who call sports talk shows are such noted intellectuals.

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As I always say, follow the money. The only thing that has changed is where it is allocated.

You are lying, as I pointed out earlier.

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Had they not traded the players, ownership is not going to sign top tier proven free agents.

When the Pirates start signing top tier free agents you can start getting ready for the next rebuild, because this team will NEVER win that way.

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They were not close to winning to do so. So what evidence has been given to you to think if proven home grown talent will be paid enough to remain or top free agents be attracted to sign with the Pirates?

Screw top tier free agents. They are unnecessary luxuries. And screw the home grown talent once you've wrung six years out of them while you're at it. It is senseless to pay the highest salaries of any players career for the right to their declining production.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:14 pm 
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Ownership pay market prices for their players worth keeping and building around? Fans are forever asked to buy into their next rebuilding plan. As for this year's draft...I too am at least encouraged that the new GM appears to have much more sense. But as good as the selections look on paper....don't yet count your chickens because young talent takes years to develop. I hope not and really don't expect to see most of these guys fail, but you could be sitting here with the 18th straight losing season in two years with a lot of these guys either gone or still playing in Altoona.

In the meantime, I'm not giving any attaboys to BN at this point. He just made financial room in his profit margins for signing this year's draft picks by jettisoning his real MLB players and their salaries. He had to sign most of his high profile draft picks this year or even the fireworks fans would have been discouraged. When BN starts signing his players who do blossom and can be built around to market prices...then he starts getting credibility with me. But until then...you can buy Baseball America magazine and start scouring all of the minor league stats to find the right guys the Pirates can acquire for any of the remaining talent left on the MLB club

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:17 pm 
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You right to be a competititive team the pirates at some point will need to raise the payroll to maybe the 60-80 million dollar range.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 12:30 am 
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bullishhitter wrote:
I listened to sports talk radio all day this past Saturday. WMBS, Dutch, WEAE Starkey and 104.7 Rocco Demarro
Dutch and all of his callers were not buying, Starkey was sipping to Kool aid and his callers had mixed feelings and Rocco was kissing owerships butt, however, the majortity of his callers were not. I found that interesting being 104.7 is the Pirate radio station.

You're using the opinions of those who call in to sports-talk radio shows as an authoritative basis? Way to torpedo your already-terrible credibility.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:53 am 
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I've been reading this board for awhile now and for the life of me I don't understand the negative attitudes most of you have towards Bullishhitter. Like myself he seems to be a true Pirate fan disillusioned with the way the organization has been run for the past 16 years. Can you really blame him or anyone else who feels the same way? After 16 years of frustration its perfectly rational to take I'll believe it when I see it approach regarding this team.

You guys are homers of the worst kind.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:35 am 
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omgardd wrote:
You guys are homers of the worst kind.


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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:41 am 
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omgardd wrote:
I've been reading this board for awhile now and for the life of me I don't understand the negative attitudes most of you have towards Bullishhitter. Like myself he seems to be a true Pirate fan disillusioned with the way the organization has been run for the past 16 years. Can you really blame him or anyone else who feels the same way? After 16 years of frustration its perfectly rational to take I'll believe it when I see it approach regarding this team.

You guys are homers of the worst kind.


Omgardd,

You might actually have a point IF.... Bullishitter actually followed the Pirates day to day like the rest of us. Ask him if he actually watches games, ask him if he contributes by attending games, ask him to tell you what he has already told us numerous times... "I don't follow the Pirates anymore"


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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:01 am 
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omgardd wrote:
I've been reading this board for awhile now and for the life of me I don't understand the negative attitudes most of you have towards Bullishhitter. Like myself he seems to be a true Pirate fan disillusioned with the way the organization has been run for the past 16 years. Can you really blame him or anyone else who feels the same way? After 16 years of frustration its perfectly rational to take I'll believe it when I see it approach regarding this team.

That would be far more tolerable than what BH actually does. BH dismisses anything good the Pirates have done this past year out of hand. Then he repeats the same argument over and over again despite evidence to the contrary. That's not rational; that's dogmatic stubborness. I've met fundamentalist Christians that are more willing to listen to opposing views than BH.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:06 am 
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omgardd wrote:
I've been reading this board for awhile now and for the life of me I don't understand the negative attitudes most of you have towards Bullishhitter. Like myself he seems to be a true Pirate fan disillusioned with the way the organization has been run for the past 16 years. Can you really blame him or anyone else who feels the same way? After 16 years of frustration its perfectly rational to take I'll believe it when I see it approach regarding this team.

You guys are homers of the worst kind.


Nice first post. :roll:

BH lies. He's been caught time and time again. He's not a Pirates fan. He's just a miserable human being who likes to try and spread the misery around.


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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:24 am 
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Lets see, in this thread alone I am told that I'm full of crap, not credible, not rational, stubborn, miserable, I dont understand and I lie. And I'm told that I insult you?
Lets see what I understand....16 years in a row of losing. Year 17 is a lock. Understand?
The Pirates are full of crap...record speaks for itself. Miserable is being the all time yearly loser.
Ownership has been real credible have they not? One mistruth after another over the years of losing yet many of you find them credible. And I lie? Thats the best one yet.
Not rational? Fans in general are not rational let alone the stubborn ones who will support the garbage the Pirate ownership continues to serve you no matter what.

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:43 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
I listened to sports talk radio all day this past Saturday. WMBS, Dutch, WEAE Starkey and 104.7 Rocco Demarro
Dutch and all of his callers were not buying, Starkey was sipping to Kool aid and his callers had mixed feelings and Rocco was kissing owerships butt, however, the majortity of his callers were not. I found that interesting being 104.7 is the Pirate radio station.
Oh my, I must be wrong, because people who call sports talk shows are such noted intellectuals.


i kallled tolk raydioe wunce. butt it wuz teh rong numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
I listened to sports talk radio all day this past Saturday. WMBS, Dutch, WEAE Starkey and 104.7 Rocco Demarro
Dutch and all of his callers were not buying, Starkey was sipping to Kool aid and his callers had mixed feelings and Rocco was kissing owerships butt, however, the majortity of his callers were not. I found that interesting being 104.7 is the Pirate radio station.
Oh my, I must be wrong, because people who call sports talk shows are such noted intellectuals.


i kallled tolk raydioe wunce. butt it wuz teh rong numbers.


I like getting sports opinion from JW in Sac Town. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:49 pm 
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Willton wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
I listened to sports talk radio all day this past Saturday. WMBS, Dutch, WEAE Starkey and 104.7 Rocco Demarro
Dutch and all of his callers were not buying, Starkey was sipping to Kool aid and his callers had mixed feelings and Rocco was kissing owerships butt, however, the majortity of his callers were not. I found that interesting being 104.7 is the Pirate radio station.

You're using the opinions of those who call in to sports-talk radio shows as an authoritative basis? Way to torpedo your already-terrible credibility.

Where do you dream up this stuff? Did I say callers on talk shows were the authoritative basis? Way to distort what I wrote. Re Read it again. I just stated what I heard. So with your logic, message board posters are authoritative? Or just you?

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:16 pm 
omgardd wrote:
I've been reading this board for awhile now and for the life of me I don't understand the negative attitudes most of you have towards Bullishhitter. Like myself he seems to be a true Pirate fan disillusioned with the way the organization has been run for the past 16 years. Can you really blame him or anyone else who feels the same way? After 16 years of frustration its perfectly rational to take I'll believe it when I see it approach regarding this team.

You guys are homers of the worst kind.


omgardd: You are sooooooo on-the-money about the homers on this board. It's not all posters; many are realists who criticize when warranted and praise when warranted. But there are some are blinded by what the WANT to believe.

I don't agree with everything BH says, but you are right about the "wait and see" school of thought. After this much losing (during much of which Nutting was involved with the team), how can you blame anyone for doubting the Pirates after all the crap we've been fed for so long?

I like a lot of what the new administration has done and dislike some of what it has done. I am praising where management should be praised, but I'm not about to bow down before Nutting/NH/Coonley until the wins show up.


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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:08 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Ownership pay market prices for their players worth keeping and building around? Fans are forever asked to buy into their next rebuilding plan. As for this year's draft...I too am at least encouraged that the new GM appears to have much more sense. But as good as the selections look on paper....don't yet count your chickens because young talent takes years to develop. I hope not and really don't expect to see most of these guys fail, but you could be sitting here with the 18th straight losing season in two years with a lot of these guys either gone or still playing in Altoona.

In the meantime, I'm not giving any attaboys to BN at this point. He just made financial room in his profit margins for signing this year's draft picks by jettisoning his real MLB players and their salaries. He had to sign most of his high profile draft picks this year or even the fireworks fans would have been discouraged. When BN starts signing his players who do blossom and can be built around to market prices...then he starts getting credibility with me. But until then...you can buy Baseball America magazine and start scouring all of the minor league stats to find the right guys the Pirates can acquire for any of the remaining talent left on the MLB club

So we come to it. Bullish doesn't care about winning. Bullish only cares about payroll size.

Did you get fired from a Nutting company or something?

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:13 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
omgardd wrote:
I've been reading this board for awhile now and for the life of me I don't understand the negative attitudes most of you have towards Bullishhitter. Like myself he seems to be a true Pirate fan disillusioned with the way the organization has been run for the past 16 years. Can you really blame him or anyone else who feels the same way? After 16 years of frustration its perfectly rational to take I'll believe it when I see it approach regarding this team.

You guys are homers of the worst kind.


omgardd: You are sooooooo on-the-money about the homers on this board. It's not all posters; many are realists who criticize when warranted and praise when warranted. But there are some are blinded by what the WANT to believe.

I don't agree with everything BH says, but you are right about the "wait and see" school of thought. After this much losing (during much of which Nutting was involved with the team), how can you blame anyone for doubting the Pirates after all the crap we've been fed for so long?

I like a lot of what the new administration has done and dislike some of what it has done. I am praising where management should be praised, but I'm not about to bow down before Nutting/NH/Coonley until the wins show up.

So let me ask you Elmer. Why should I be required to adopt a wait and see attitude towards the current management team? Why should I not look at what they've done so far and make whatever conclusion I think fits the facts? Just to give you an example, why did you conclude that Morgan was better than McLouth? Why didn't you adopt a wait and see attitude?

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:16 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
So we come to it. Bullish doesn't care about winning. Bullish only cares about payroll size.

Did you get fired from a Nutting company or something?


As usual, you distort what was written

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 Post subject: Re: bullishhitter comments
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:23 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
So we come to it. Bullish doesn't care about winning. Bullish only cares about payroll size.

Did you get fired from a Nutting company or something?


As usual, you distort what was written

No, actually, I didn't. You have a fixation on long term contracts for veterans, and you are equating management's desire to win with it's willingness to give out such contracts. One has nothing to do with the other.

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