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 Post subject: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:20 pm 
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08125/879042-139.stm

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:23 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08125/879042-139.stm


I've definitely noticed more people being down on the Pirates this year than in any other year I can remember. I can't say I blame them, though.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Just another couple clueless Pirate Fans tossing blame on a new front office unwarrented. All these guys need to get an address for David Littlefield and go bother him.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:20 pm 
Piratefan13 wrote:
Just another couple clueless Pirate Fans tossing blame on a new front office unwarrented. All these guys need to get an address for David Littlefield and go bother him.


I'm with you on blaming Littlefield for a lot of what's going on here. I don't think it's fair to absolve the new management from blame totally. They're in charge now and they're still losing.

Also, this new management has kept a ton of the scouts who apparently couldn't bring in good talent before.

And Nutting has been part of the ownership group since approx. 1996 and very very influential/powerful (if not totally in charge) long before it became official last year. I think giving him his fair share of the blame is very reasonable.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Elmer,
I was optimistic at the beginning of the season, I felt that if each of our players had improved upon last year then we would have a decent year. It has become apparent that only a select few have improved, most have regressed. Blaming the current management for having players that just aren't talented enough doesn't seem very fair. I agree with the Pirates in this situation, the upper-management needed to see what that had in-house before blowing up the team. If this season is doing anything, its giving a clear indication of who is valuable and who has peaked and is no longer going to be a consideration. Additionally, the FA pool and lack of talent through the minors had handcuffed management, leaving them with little chance to improve the club on the field. Nutting could have easily dropped $50M in FA's but for what? Morris would still have thrown batting practice, the pitching staff would still have regressed as a whole. Nothing could really have been done to improve the club THIS year but the improvement of its current players. The only way I see us contending in the future is if we stockpile talent. It may take a few years to do that. By then McCutchen will be in his prime and hopefully leading this team to the promised land. Forget about the holdovers from the DL regime, that is all "fluff" from the columnists(namely Bob Smizik) to get all of us in a tizzy. We do not know what their resume looks like, we weren't in the draft room when it came time to make our picks. The holdovers could have been oppressed by DL, or utilized outside of their talents. The wrong type of leadership can make quality men ineffective, talented personnel, useless.

Really, what other options do we have? We have to be patient, we have to wait it out. Some fans will scream bloody murder and won't support the team under some sort of excuse or another. But us true fans wait it out, suffer through the difficulties, and when a championship graces this city once more, the victory will be an affirmation to our steadfast abilities in this city. We are a tougher breed, those of us that come from the 'burgh, we can take more pain and anguish than most anyone in this country. We have all got to suck it up and support this organization, top to bottom. Blaming ownership and management is like throwing empty punches at this point. Let NH trade away McLouth or Bay for a bag of balls and I'll be the first one in line on the offensive.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:49 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Just another couple clueless Pirate Fans tossing blame on a new front office unwarrented. All these guys need to get an address for David Littlefield and go bother him.


I'm with you on blaming Littlefield for a lot of what's going on here. I don't think it's fair to absolve the new management from blame totally. They're in charge now and they're still losing.

Yeah, they've only been on the job for less than a year and they're STILL not winning the division. Buncha bums ... :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:58 pm 
PirateFan1:

I agree with most of what you say. I think most of the blame needs to be on old management. Where we differ is not putting ANY blame on the current management.

It's totally true that NH hasn't been on the job even a year. You can't criticize him for much. But he didn't improve the team at all, and I think it's OK to criticize him a little for that. You're right that we were counting on the current players to improve and that's not happening. Is that totally NH's fault? Hell no. But he's the GM and he made the decision to wait for the current group to improve; they're not; that is worth of a little criticism.

My bigger criticism is of Nutting. He's not new at all. He inherited the title of being in charge last year, but by all accounts, he was in charge or damn-near in charge for years. He signed off of the Morris trade, he retained the scouting dept., etc. This still is the same team that, according to Forbes Magazine, was third most profitable in baseball and had third lowest payroll. Nutting is the man in charge there.

I like building for the future AND THAT'S THE SMART THING TO DO. But the thing that I HATE IS when people act like building for the future means losing now. There are plenty of teams who manage to do both.

In a nutshell, I agree with you that NH/Nutting don't deserve all the blame for this, or even most of it. But you can't give them a free pass, especially Nutting.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:07 pm 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
Just another couple clueless Pirate Fans tossing blame on a new front office unwarrented. All these guys need to get an address for David Littlefield and go bother him.


I'm with you on blaming Littlefield for a lot of what's going on here. I don't think it's fair to absolve the new management from blame totally. They're in charge now and they're still losing.

Yeah, they've only been on the job for less than a year and they're STILL not winning the division. Buncha bums ... :roll:


I don't think either of us said anything about winning divisions. We are talking about regression, though. Most of that has to do with inheriting crap, but how can you give them a total pass? Many of the pieces of crap inherited by this group are performing even worse than they did last year. Regression is still regression.


Last edited by Elmer on Mon May 05, 2008 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:15 pm 
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Wow. I didn't know we had even slipped to last below the Marlins in attendance. That is just abysmal.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 8:41 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Wow. I didn't know we had even slipped to last below the Marlins in attendance. That is just abysmal.


And this is before the team is 15 games out of first.

Which will happen soon enough . . .


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Piratefan13

You are the type of fan who would support the Pirates no matter what they did or who owned the team. Alfred E Newman as owner, the 3 stooges as Prez, GM and manager, Goofy & Pluto at pitcher & catcher and the 7 dwarfs in the field and you'd still be optimistic.

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:14 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Wow. I didn't know we had even slipped to last below the Marlins in attendance. That is just abysmal.


I was at the Tuesday April 22nd game. A nice sunny 65* day. They anounced 10,000+ paid but there was not 6000 people there. It was a real big empty. I personaly don't get it? I got in for $5 and parked for free. I can't do a movie for that.

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:43 pm 
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All the same it's depressing to see us game after game not have a chance.
I blame no onew here but my biggest disappointment is with the starters so far the season. Just a year ago we were all expecting big things from them, only to have our hopes dashed again.
I know patience is the key, but it is very hard to accept this sh**.

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:48 pm 
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old juan wrote:
I personaly don't get it? I got in for $5 and parked for free. I can't do a movie for that.


Dont get it? Take a wild guess. You wont go to see lousy movies that are the same all of the time

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Last edited by bullishhitter on Mon May 05, 2008 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:50 pm 
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old juan wrote:
TheShark wrote:
Wow. I didn't know we had even slipped to last below the Marlins in attendance. That is just abysmal.


I was at the Tuesday April 22nd game. A nice sunny 65* day. They anounced 10,000+ paid but there was not 6000 people there. It was a real big empty. I personaly don't get it? I got in for $5 and parked for free. I can't do a movie for that.


Yeah, but how many movies leave you feeling hungover? Seriously though, patience is key right now. It's all we can do. But I do think we all have the right to be a little frustrated right now. I look at a team like the Brewers and it does make me want to hunt Littlefield down and tickle him until he pees his pants.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:19 am 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Piratefan13

You are the type of fan who would support the Pirates no matter what they did or who owned the team. Alfred E Newman as owner, the 3 stooges as Prez, GM and manager, Goofy & Pluto at pitcher & catcher and the 7 dwarfs in the field and you'd still be optimistic.



Yah... its called being a diehard fan not a bandwagoner, you should try it sometime.


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 Post subject: Re: from the PG mailbag
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:02 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
Piratefan13

You are the type of fan who would support the Pirates no matter what they did or who owned the team. Alfred E Newman as owner, the 3 stooges as Prez, GM and manager, Goofy & Pluto at pitcher & catcher and the 7 dwarfs in the field and you'd still be optimistic.



Yah... its called being a diehard fan not a bandwagoner, you should try it sometime.


I'm with you Piratefan13. Diehard. But it is extremely frustrating to see the team you love in such dire straits. Like you, I will choose to be optimistic about the new management. Perhaps we will see them gradually purge the old scouting department as time goes on.


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