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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:59 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
we agree only applied to the first sentence i said.everything after that was my opinion , and as for Yates goes i see him like a rock rolling down a hill.the pirates testing him on what he does in 1 inning isnt fair to a strike-out type pitcher like him.i will say though thay his walks do scare me and that has always been his problem but i really think he deserves a shot.We are possibly going to have 2 out of 5 rotation spots open this week and maybe in the weeks to come.Who would you guys put in for those starts?

I wouldn't use Yates. He hasn't really been that effective this year, he hasn't been effective as a starter in the past, and his arm probably isn't built up enough to handle a starting role at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:13 am 
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And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:19 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

That wasn't why I brought it up. I brought it up because even if you accept that Snell was throwing his fastball consistently at the same speed as he did last year, he was still hurt.

I don't accept that he was consistently throwing at the same velocity as last year, and neither does Bob Walk, but that's a different argument altogether.

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Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

And my point is that it doesn't mean he isn't injured.

Quote:
But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

I don't read BA at all beyond a few scouting reports at draft time, and I didn't get this argument from BP. It's from observation. Both pitchers had heavy workloads at young ages last year, and both suck this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:56 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:59 am 
Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


BP and BA give great insight on baseball but they aren't the final source. BP, especially, churns out statistical analysis. But (and I'm not going to answer posts to restart this debate. You've heard where I stand), stats aren't the total picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Willton wrote:
They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


Never said I was. I however, reserve the right to question, observe and think for myself when I see some things they write.

If you consider this some kind of insult though, you'll need much more to get under my skin.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:53 am 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


BP and BA give great insight on baseball but they aren't the final source. BP, especially, churns out statistical analysis. But (and I'm not going to answer posts to restart this debate. You've heard where I stand), stats aren't the total picture.

There is no final source, but dismissing what they say without saying why they are wrong just makes you willfully ignorant.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:01 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Willton wrote:
They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


Never said I was. I however, reserve the right to question, observe and think for myself when I see some things they write.

If you consider this some kind of insult though, you'll need much more to get under my skin.

ZM

But nobody invoked anything that they wrote! You made your snide comment purely in an effort to piss people off. We all know you're biased against anything written in BP, but to show it when nobody quoted or referenced BP makes you look like a goon with an agenda, much like Ann Coulter.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:32 am 
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My isn't that a little strong. To reference an agenda like Ann Coultor IMO is hitting below the belt. I don't need or want in the middle of you two, just thought that this comment would get under anyones skin.

What do you think ZM?

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:49 am 
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I think he's reaching, since I've never dimissed BP or BA and in fact have referenced BA in the past.

I dismiss people who use them as a version of the indisputable Bible though and who seem to simply reguritate something read.

Ann Coulter is a hoot.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:30 am 
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Willton wrote:
We all know you're biased against anything written in BP, but to show it when nobody quoted or referenced BP makes you look like a goon with an agenda, much like Ann Coulter.


Or, to level the playing field, Al Franken.


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