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 Post subject: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:24 pm 
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........told LaRoche I'TS JUNE NOW! and it's ok to start hitting!?!?!?!?

Good Lord :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:33 pm 
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Adam Laroche is not a good hitter. He just is not.

Time for all concerned to realize that. The Pirates need to look for a replacement at that position.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:40 am 
Bucfan wrote:
Adam Laroche is not a good hitter. He just is not.

Time for all concerned to realize that. The Pirates need to look for a replacement at that position.


Bucfan, you said it. I have to laugh when I hear these "slow starter" excuses and "slump" explanations. LaRoche isn't in a slump. He's just not that good.

Moving Pearce back to first is no coincidence.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:50 am 
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Elmer wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
Adam Laroche is not a good hitter. He just is not.

Time for all concerned to realize that. The Pirates need to look for a replacement at that position.


Bucfan, you said it. I have to laugh when I hear these "slow starter" excuses and "slump" explanations. LaRoche isn't in a slump. He's just not that good.

Moving Pearce back to first is no coincidence.


LaRoche is in a slump, it just runs from April 1st to October 1st...

In March he's a stud!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:47 pm 
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I am not a big Adam LaRoche fan, but we have had lot worse players on this team. Maybe the expectations are too high of him?

But we are stuck with him for now. He doesn't have a high trade value and they aren't just going to dump him.

Heck, if he plays like he did in July and August last year, everyone will be a lot happier.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:49 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
I am not a big Adam LaRoche fan, but we have had lot worse players on this team.


There is nobody who is hitting as poorly as Laroche, with the possible exception of Sanchez. But while Freddy plays middle infield, Laroche plays first base - the position where players that can hit, but have trouble in the field (Pujols, Giambi, Ortiz, Howard, and on and on) are placed.

When a team has a guy hitting .212 at that position, with limited power and no real run production, they are so far below league average that they are getting killed.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
I am not a big Adam LaRoche fan, but we have had lot worse players on this team.


There is nobody who is hitting as poorly as Laroche, with the possible exception of Sanchez. But while Freddy plays middle infield, Laroche plays first base - the position where players that can hit, but have trouble in the field (Pujols, Giambi, Ortiz, Howard, and on and on) are placed.

When a team has a guy hitting .212 at that position, with limited power and no real run production, they are so far below league average that they are getting killed.


I don't disagree with you but my point was we are stuck with him and he is a problem because he plays first. But go back and look at some of the guys who have played first the past 15 seasons. There have been a lot worse and at least LaRoche is pretty good with the glove.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:04 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:


When a team has a guy hitting .212 at that position, with limited power and no real run production, they are so far below league average that they are getting killed.


You are implying that we are getting killed because of a lack of offense? Really? Obviously you never want below average production at any position, but that hasn't been the main problem this year.

I'm no Laroche fan, but he is nowhere close to being the reason they are getting killed. Furthermore, if we can agree that we are going nowhere this year, then first base isn't and shouldn't be a priority for this club, given that we have at least one promising young player who could play at first, which is one more than we have at most other positions, save for the outfield.

As mentioned before, Laroche has no value in a trade right now, and you aren't going to just cut him. Ride him and hope he hits this summer like he did last summer.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:40 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
But while Freddy plays middle infield, Laroche plays first base - the position where players that can hit, but have trouble in the field (Pujols, Giambi, Ortiz, Howard, and on and on) are placed.


I always thought Pujols was moved to 1st because of his elbow problems...

And Scott Rolen

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:19 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But while Freddy plays middle infield, Laroche plays first base - the position where players that can hit, but have trouble in the field (Pujols, Giambi, Ortiz, Howard, and on and on) are placed.


I always thought Pujols was moved to 1st because of his elbow problems...

And Scott Rolen

He moved to first because of Rolen, and he's a gold glover at first. I think his elbow problems started after he moved. He showed above average range at third and in left field. He even made an appearance at shortstop. Bucfan's list looks like one of the Sesame Street "One of these things is not like the others" clips.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:12 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But while Freddy plays middle infield, Laroche plays first base - the position where players that can hit, but have trouble in the field (Pujols, Giambi, Ortiz, Howard, and on and on) are placed.


I always thought Pujols was moved to 1st because of his elbow problems...

And Scott Rolen


Pujols was not good at third. The Cards tried him in the OF because he was so bad at third, but he had zero range and did not have an OF'ers arm.

I base this on what the Cards did, how Pujols looked, and the fact that he was shuffled around until he was plugged in at first. Pujols was a lousy third baseman but he was such a remarkable hitter that he was going to play.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But while Freddy plays middle infield, Laroche plays first base - the position where players that can hit, but have trouble in the field (Pujols, Giambi, Ortiz, Howard, and on and on) are placed.


I always thought Pujols was moved to 1st because of his elbow problems...

And Scott Rolen


Pujols was not good at third. The Cards tried him in the OF because he was so bad at third, but he had zero range and did not have an OF'ers arm.

I base this on what the Cards did, how Pujols looked, and the fact that he was shuffled around until he was plugged in at first. Pujols was a lousy third baseman but he was such a remarkable hitter that he was going to play.

He shuffled between positions because he was good enough to field at all of them. The Cards moved him off of third because they acquired the best defensive third baseman in the league. I'll take the numbers over your judgment on how he looked at third, and the numbers say that he had good range. Those numbers are supported by his gold glove status at first base.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:27 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
He shuffled between positions because he was good enough to field at all of them.


So true. Players who are really good defensively at a position get moved all the time . . . I can't think of one single example right now, but I will not let the facts stand in the way.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:42 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
He shuffled between positions because he was good enough to field at all of them.


So true. Players who are really good defensively at a position get moved all the time . . . I can't think of one single example right now, but I will not let the facts stand in the way.

Bucfan, if you're going to go back to putting words in my mouth again, then please put me back on ignore. You know damned well that I didn't say that Pujols was really good at all those positions because my quote is right at the beginning of your post. I said that he was good enough to field at all those positions. I never called him a gold glover at any position except first base. His range was above average at third. His range was above average in left. That's not my opinion, it's a fact supported by his statistics, which I'll take over anecdotal evidence provided by your biased eyesight. The fact that he was not as good as the best defensive third baseman in the league doesn't make him a lousy third baseman.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:49 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
He shuffled between positions because he was good enough to field at all of them.


So true. Players who are really good defensively at a position get moved all the time . . . I can't think of one single example right now, but I will not let the facts stand in the way.

Bucfan, if you're going to go back to putting words in my mouth again, then please put me back on ignore. You know damned well that I didn't say that Pujols was really good at all those positions because my quote is right at the beginning of your post. I said that he was good enough to field at all those positions. I never called him a gold glover at any position except first base. His range was above average at third. His range was above average in left. That's not my opinion, it's a fact supported by his statistics, which I'll take over anecdotal evidence provided by your biased eyesight. The fact that he was not as good as the best defensive third baseman in the league doesn't make him a lousy third baseman.


His range was not above average in left. He was bad in left.

Sisy Logic: The Pirates moving of Tim Wakefiled to pitcher from first base had nothing to do with him not being able to hit.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
His range was not above average in left. He was bad in left.

Sisy Logic: The Pirates moving of Tim Wakefiled to pitcher from first base had nothing to do with him not being able to hit.

Albert Pujols lifetime range factor per nine innings in left field: 1.97

Average ML left fielder range factor per nine innings in the same years: 1.91

Elmer logic: No answer. The phrase is an oxymoron.

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:58 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
His range was not above average in left. He was bad in left.

Sisy Logic: The Pirates moving of Tim Wakefiled to pitcher from first base had nothing to do with him not being able to hit.

Albert Pujols lifetime range factor per nine innings in left field: 1.97

Average ML left fielder range factor per nine innings in the same years: 1.91

Elmer logic: No answer. The phrase is an oxymoron.


I put no weight on "range factor" -- watching a guy play the field is the best way to determine his range, imho.


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:39 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
His range was not above average in left. He was bad in left.

Sisy Logic: The Pirates moving of Tim Wakefiled to pitcher from first base had nothing to do with him not being able to hit.

Albert Pujols lifetime range factor per nine innings in left field: 1.97

Average ML left fielder range factor per nine innings in the same years: 1.91

Elmer logic: No answer. The phrase is an oxymoron.


I put no weight on "range factor" -- watching a guy play the field is the best way to determine his range, imho.

What are your qualifications as a major league scout?

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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:40 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
What are your qualifications as a major league scout?


Since when do you have to be a major league scout to have an opinion about baseball?


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 Post subject: Re: Has anyone.......
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
What are your qualifications as a major league scout?


Since when do you have to be a major league scout to have an opinion about baseball?

You don't. You don't to have eyesight to have an opinion on the color of the sky, either. But I'll take a scientific spectrum analysis of the color of the sky over the opinion of a blind man every time.

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