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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:55 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
But Hamilton blew off whole organizations during his junkie days.


Did he?

I am unfamiliar with Hamilton a whole lot to be honest, other than an SI article I read last year, which indicated that he seems to have gotten his life in order. I would have no problem picking up a guy like that. I certainly don't mind second chances, when they are deserved and earned.

But to me, and again I hate to keep going over this because you all know how I feel but I keep getting called on it, to me, Milledge is not deserving of a shot yet. Play in the minors. Do well. Keep your nose clean, then I would not mind seeing him here.

The playing is the biggest thing. He really has not played all that well for an extended period of time for a while. He did have a decent, not great, but decent, second half last year. Until he proves he is better than what we have here, he deserves to stay in the minors.

But to be honest, I don't see that happening.


Looking at Hamilton's career...I did not realize he was as old as he is. He was out of baseball from between 2002-2006. I am guessing when he hit rock bottom, he realized he needed to make those changes. Then when he came back, he got a chance in A. Then AAA. Then worked his way back to a chance in the majors.

Let Milledge take a similar path. Make him SHOW he is committed to baseball in general, and the team spefically. Make sure he is willing to do everything they want from him.

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:08 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Looking at Hamilton's career...I did not realize he was as old as he is. He was out of baseball from between 2002-2006. I am guessing when he hit rock bottom, he realized he needed to make those changes. Then when he came back, he got a chance in A. Then AAA. Then worked his way back to a chance in the majors.

Let Milledge take a similar path. Make him SHOW he is committed to baseball in general, and the team spefically. Make sure he is willing to do everything they want from him.


Right. Because a guy who missed a couple of team meetings should be treated exactly the same as the drug addict who was out of baseball for 4 years.


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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
burghermeister wrote:
Or is there a different complexion on the Hamilton situation, Animal?


Put your finger on the heart of the matter Burger. KEY WORD here is complexion which went over some people's heads


Ah, yes, quite used to it... play the race card and blame the other guy for it.

Brilliant, just freak'n brilliant... :roll:

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:12 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Animal wrote:
Looking at Hamilton's career...I did not realize he was as old as he is. He was out of baseball from between 2002-2006. I am guessing when he hit rock bottom, he realized he needed to make those changes. Then when he came back, he got a chance in A. Then AAA. Then worked his way back to a chance in the majors.

Let Milledge take a similar path. Make him SHOW he is committed to baseball in general, and the team spefically. Make sure he is willing to do everything they want from him.


Right. Because a guy who missed a couple of team meetings should be treated exactly the same as the drug addict who was out of baseball for 4 years.


Yeah, when the guy who missed those team meeting repeatedly had problems being part of a team. Because he went from being a problem for one team, to gettting a fresh start, and doing it all over again.

He really has not even performed that well. All he has to do is play well at AAA, do what he is supposed to do, and get promoted. Should not be too hard, should it? Or should we just put this guy right in our lineup over guys who have actually EARNED their position, but have slumped.

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Animal wrote:
He really has not even performed that well. All he has to do is play well at AAA, do what he is supposed to do, and get promoted. Should not be too hard, should it? Or should we just put this guy right in our lineup over guys who have actually EARNED their position, but have slumped.

Guys like Luis Cruz and Jeff Salazar?

For the record, I think the Nats did the right thing by sending him down for some humble pie when he was ignoring some responsibilities. I'm hopeful that it did him some good. And I don't think the Pirates should necessarily rush him to the bigs but, assuming he hits at AAA (which it looks like he is going to do), they shouldn't wait too long either. Let the punishment fit the crime. Bring him up, communicate clearly that the leash is short and let him play.

And you say he performed ok at the end of last season, just ok but not great. Well his OPS during August and September of last year was .863. That's higher than any Pirate this year other than Garrett Jones. As a 23 year old rookie, that's more than just ok in my book.


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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:29 pm 
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Hamilton's sins did not include shaking hands with fans after hitting a home run. His only offense was..... gee what was it, again?

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:30 pm 
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To sin is human, to forgive is divine. -- Should that include everyone or just a select few? Can all people get a second chance?

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:14 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Animal wrote:
He really has not even performed that well. All he has to do is play well at AAA, do what he is supposed to do, and get promoted. Should not be too hard, should it? Or should we just put this guy right in our lineup over guys who have actually EARNED their position, but have slumped.

Guys like Luis Cruz and Jeff Salazar?

For the record, I think the Nats did the right thing by sending him down for some humble pie when he was ignoring some responsibilities. I'm hopeful that it did him some good. And I don't think the Pirates should necessarily rush him to the bigs but, assuming he hits at AAA (which it looks like he is going to do), they shouldn't wait too long either. Let the punishment fit the crime. Bring him up, communicate clearly that the leash is short and let him play.

And you say he performed ok at the end of last season, just ok but not great. Well his OPS during August and September of last year was .863. That's higher than any Pirate this year other than Garrett Jones. As a 23 year old rookie, that's more than just ok in my book.


Yes, if he WERE a 23 year old Rookie, and NOT in his 3rd season in the majors.

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:22 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Yes, if he WERE a 23 year old Rookie, and NOT in his 3rd season in the majors.

I don't get this. You are holding him to a different standard of production because he was good enough to make the majors at age 21?

The reason why people are still intrigued by Milledge is the fact that he hit reasonably well, at a very, very, VERY young age in the majors.


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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:26 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Animal wrote:
Yes, if he WERE a 23 year old Rookie, and NOT in his 3rd season in the majors.

I don't get this. You are holding him to a different standard of production because he was good enough to make the majors at age 21?

The reason why people are still intrigued by Milledge is the fact that he hit reasonably well, at a very, very, VERY young age in the majors.


No not at all, the poster was saying he did so well last last year, considering he was a 23 year old rookie. But he was NOT a 23 year old rookie. He was already in his third major league season.

As I said in another post, I really think what has hurt Milledge was that he was rushed to the majors and did not have enough time in AAA. I think that had kept Jose Guillen from being considered among the elite OF in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Animal wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
I don't get this. You are holding him to a different standard of production because he was good enough to make the majors at age 21?

The reason why people are still intrigued by Milledge is the fact that he hit reasonably well, at a very, very, VERY young age in the majors.


No not at all, the poster was saying he did so well last last year, considering he was a 23 year old rookie. But he was NOT a 23 year old rookie. He was already in his third major league season.

As I said in another post, I really think what has hurt Milledge was that he was rushed to the majors and did not have enough time in AAA. I think that had kept Jose Guillen from being considered among the elite OF in the game.

My mistake. I did not mean to suggest that he was a officially a rookie just that he was 23 years old and that it was his first full year in the majors.


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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:54 pm 
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I concur sub.


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 Post subject: Re: McCutchen Needs Some Work...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:22 am 
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No not at all, the poster was saying he did so well last last year, considering he was a 23 year old rookie. But he was NOT a 23 year old rookie. He was already in his third major league season.

As I said in another post, I really think what has hurt Milledge was that he was rushed to the majors and did not have enough time in AAA. I think that had kept Jose Guillen from being considered among the elite OF in the game

Wow, after reading this, i realize this won't happen often, but i am just SPEECHLESS.

You had me going there, until the Jose Guillen quote.


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