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 Post subject: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:51 pm 
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Jason Bay - on what he was trying to do during his pinch-hit at-bat . . .

"I was just trying to get it in the air for the sacrifice fly," Bay said. "And that's how it felt. I hit a ball last night a lot better than that for an out. When it went over, I went, 'Wow.' "

Wow. Jason Bay admits that he was trying to have an at-bat where - as some has described - he would be a failure.

And, in case you can't tell through the written word, I am trying to be sarcastic.

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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:20 pm 
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Bay is a good hitter and knew that a fly ball in that circumstance yields a run and the lead. Good hitting.

I am not sure who would take exception to his approach on that at-bat.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:22 pm 
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SACRIFICE?Image

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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:36 pm 
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No. 9:

If you are trying to get an argument from the anti-productive out crowd, I don't think you'll have much luck. No one has said there isn't a time or place for productive outs. In that case, one run can win you the game, so it makes sense to play for one run (also, trying to hit the ball to the outfield is a heck of a lot different than deliberately bunting into an out).

However, in the first inning, it doesn't make sense to play for that one run when the one run is unlikely to win you the game and you are potentially costing yourself a chance at multiple runs.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:39 pm 
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BBF wrote:
No. 9:

If you are trying to get an argument from the anti-productive out crowd, I don't think you'll have much luck. No one has said there isn't a time or place for productive outs. In that case, one run can win you the game, so it makes sense to play for one run (also, trying to hit the ball to the outfield is a heck of a lot different than deliberately bunting into an out).


"No one has said there isn't a time or place for productive outs?" Really?

I beg to differ. While I can no longer go to previous posts, I distinctly recall several posters saying that no such entity exists. I also distinctly recall several posters saying that a hitter should never come to the plate and simply be trying to hit the ball to the OF for a sacrifice fly. Indeed, one poster went so far as to say "an out is an out is an out."

Bay is quoted as saying that he was simply trying to hit a fly ball to the OF, hoping for a sac fly. He wasn't trying for a single, a double or even a HR. He was trying to hit a fly ball. I've been openly mocked for suggesting that - in certain instances - that is exactly the right approach. I've also been openly mocked for suggesting that a hitter may have done a good job at the plate when hitting for a sac fly when the "real" hero is the person who got on base. Those ABs have been referred to consistently by certain posters as "failure" ABs. Others have suggested that no player in his right mind would come to the plate with the goal of making an out.

For those who have previously taken that position, I give you Jason Bay. Just trying to hit a fly ball deep enough to score the run. Smart approach and look what happened.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:45 pm 
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BBF wrote:
In that case, one run can win you the game, so it makes sense to play for one run.


BBF -
These are serious questions.

8th inning. No one out. Game tied. Runners on second and third. Bay up. Sanchez on deck. McLouth in the hole. You say "one run can win you the game, so it makes sense to play for one run." Cardinals still have 2 ABs.

Same situation but what if it was the 7th inning?
How about the 6th inning?
When would it have not been OK for Bay to come to the plate and look to hit a sac fly?
Where does one draw the line and what is the reasoning behind the answer?

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:02 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Jason Bay - on what he was trying to do during his pinch-hit at-bat . . .

"I was just trying to get it in the air for the sacrifice fly," Bay said. "And that's how it felt. I hit a ball last night a lot better than that for an out. When it went over, I went, 'Wow.' "

Wow. Jason Bay admits that he was trying to have an at-bat where - as some has described - he would be a failure.

And, in case you can't tell through the written word, I am trying to be sarcastic.

I would expect a comment like that from a player who constantly displays modesty in front of journalists. I promise you that Bay's focus was not just to get it in the air: it was to get the ball deep in the air. And when a player such as Bay does that, it has a good chance of going over the fence.

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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:34 am 
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Ahhhh, the Canadian defense...

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:33 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Ahhhh, the Canadian defense...

ZM


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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Sacrilege
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:39 am 
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There is an interesting article in The Hardball Times touching the subject, among other things.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/artic ... f-you-can/

John Walsh's conclusion is that sac flys are far from automatic. And really, if you can hit the ball deep into the range of the outfielders, chances are not that bad that it's going to drop. Players who want to hit a sac fly don't give up an out voluntarily. If I felt confident about hitting long fly balls, why not? But then again, you always try to hit the ball hard.

According to the article in sac fly situations players generally put more balls in play, both ground and fly balls. For some players this approach will be more productive, for some not.


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