Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:08 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5519
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
Doumit's absence messes up what was looking pretty solid as of late.

Playing JR, I'd do this:
Sanchez -2B
Bautista - 3B
McLouth - CF
Bay - LF
LaRoche - 1B
Nady - RF
Paulino - C
SS of the day - SS

At least at this juncture, I'd be advocating NOT having Bautista, Paulino and "SS of the Day" batting back-to-back-to-back.

When Jack Flash returns, I'd either slide him into the 8th slot or put him in the 2 slot, move Bautista to 7 and Paulino to 8.

Although the PPG reports the fracture to be "slight," I'm betting that we won't see Doumit for a full three weeks and wouldn't be shocked if it advanced out to 6 weeks. Tough to protect that thumb if he comes back too early.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
I disagree with your lineup choice. Moving Bautista to the 2nd spot means that he'll get more plate appearances than he would batting where used to. Considering how Bautista is not hitting well, I don't see how moving him higher is beneficial. The idea that we should break up the string of below-average hitters at the bottom of the order does not justify giving a bad hitter more plate appearances over a good hitter by placing him higher in the order. Plus, I'd rather have our good hitters batting one after another in order to increase run scoring, even if our bad hitters have to bat back-to-back-to-back. Mixing the bad hitters in with the good ones tends to limit the opportunities of the good hitters to drive in runs.

There's a very easy solution to this: Bat Paulino 7th and move everyone else up one spot (save the 8th hitter).

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:15 pm 
I don't like Nady hitting that low. He's one of their best hitters, so you don't want to cost him at bats.

I'd bat Paulino 7th, SS 8th and pitcher 9. That really sucks because 1/3 of our lineup is cake. But, depending on how long Doumit will be out, I wouldn't be surprised if NH goes out and gets another option at catcher. We all know how Paulino performs when he's not pushed.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 2:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5519
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
Willton/Econo -
I know that you don't believe in the concept of hitter protection but I firmly believe that Bautista will see better pitches to hit with McLouth in the on-deck circle and Bay in the hole. Why would any pitcher - in his right mind - give Bautista much to hit with Bixler on-deck and the pitcher in the hole?

Further, Bautista should understand that the #2 spot demands for him to become more selective. If he walks, he's got the heart of the lineup ready to knock him in.

This lineup desperately needs not only to have Sanchez keep hitting and for LaRoche to continue waking up but for Bautista to pick up the slack. He's no stranger to hitting higher in the order and he's had some previous successes up near the top.

Elmer -
In my eyes, very little difference in batting Nady 5th or 6th. I proposed 6th because he's done so well with runners on base. At the 6 spot, I would hope that he would have some opportunities to knock in some runs; particularly following McLouth, Bay and LaRoche. It also gives you a L-R-L-R order from positions 3-6.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10577
Bautista at no. 2 in the lineup makes some sense, since he does draw walks. When he hit leadoff, he was on base all the time.

One issue with Bautista hitting second is that neither he nor Freddy is very fast. When they get on, they tend to clog the bases.

I understand the point that dropping a good hitter costs him at bats. I understand that elevating Bautista to second gives him more plate appearances than Bay, Nady, etc.

But having the bottom of the lineup consist of Paulino, Bautista, SS and pitcher is U-G-L-Y against right-handers. Way too many easy innings for the opposing pitcher.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:04 pm 
Bucfan wrote:
But having the bottom of the lineup consist of Paulino, Bautista, SS and pitcher is U-G-L-Y against right-handers. Way too many easy innings for the opposing pitcher.


I agree with you here Bucfan. If we see this I'm sure NH does too. That's why I expect him to get another catcher in here if Doumit is out for an extended period of time.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:09 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
No. 9 wrote:
Further, Bautista should understand that the #2 spot demands for him to become more selective. If he walks, he's got the heart of the lineup ready to knock him in.



No. 9:

My perception of Bautista is that he is a pretty selective hitter already. I would actually think that having a selective hitter bat in front of Bixler could be an advantage as the pitcher won't be coming right after them, so you don't want the batter to get up there and start hacking away (<cough Ronny cough>). Of course, then the argument becomes, who would drive him in.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10577
BBF wrote:
My perception of Bautista is that he is a pretty selective hitter already. I would actually think that having a selective hitter bat in front of Bixler could be an advantage as the pitcher won't be coming right after them, so you don't want the batter to get up there and start hacking away (<cough Ronny cough>).


I am waiting for the day that Brian Bixler strikes out from the on-deck circle. He just starts wailing away before he even reaches the batter's box, the umpire is a bit mystified but calls him out on strikes (swinging), and Bixler meekly proceeds back to the dugout.

Does any player on the Pirates see fewer pitches than Bixler??


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5121
Location: Pittsburgh
Elmer wrote:
I don't like Nady hitting that low. He's one of their best hitters, so you don't want to cost him at bats.

I'd bat Paulino 7th, SS 8th and pitcher 9. That really sucks because 1/3 of our lineup is cake. But, depending on how long Doumit will be out, I wouldn't be surprised if NH goes out and gets another option at catcher. We all know how Paulino performs when he's not pushed.

Elmer, Paulino is being pushed. Doumit did not die. He'll be back eventually, and Paulino knows it. However he might stink up the joint while Doumit is out (and he probably will, at least against righties), but he'll be as motivated as can be. Nobody enjoys his first taste of being a backup.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:11 pm
Posts: 5519
Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
BBF wrote:
Of course, then the argument becomes, who would drive him in.


My concern exactly.
Also, I think Bautista has a lot more talent at the plate than what we've seen. His bat has some real pop when he is making regular contact. My gut tells me that a move to #2 may light a fire under his arse.

_________________
Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5121
Location: Pittsburgh
Elmer wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But having the bottom of the lineup consist of Paulino, Bautista, SS and pitcher is U-G-L-Y against right-handers. Way too many easy innings for the opposing pitcher.


I agree with you here Bucfan. If we see this I'm sure NH does too. That's why I expect him to get another catcher in here if Doumit is out for an extended period of time.

He will bring another catcher in. He's on his way to St. Louis from Indianapolis as we speak, but I don't know his name. Probably Chavez. Dealing for another catcher would be unwise, because that means you've given up something of value so that you can be stuck with three catchers in a month or so. And if you don't give up anything of value, the guy you get probably is no better than Chavez or Maldonado.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:43 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
Bucfan wrote:
Does any player on the Pirates see fewer pitches than Bixler??


#Pitches per Plate Appearance 2008:
Code:
Mclouth    4.27
Bay        4.25
Bautista   4.11
LaRoche    3.82
Nady       3.77
Bixler     3.62
Doumit     3.58
Sanchez    3.38


Code:
2007 Top Hitters by Pitches per PA

 Player          Team      Pitch  PA   PPA
Jayson Werth  Phillies    1,392  304  4.58
Reggie Willis Angels      2,301  518  4.44
Jack Cust     Athletics   2,232  507  4.40
Jason Botts   Rangers       833  190  4.38
Bobby Abreu   Yankees     3,060  699  4.38
Ruben Gotay   Mets          922  211  4.37
Todd Helton   Rockies     2,970  890  3.93
TDroy Glaus   Blue Jays   1,972  456  4.32
Kevin Millar  Orioles     2,429  562  4.32
Ryan Shealy   Royals        815  189  4.31
  Minimum 100 plate appearances


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:30 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But having the bottom of the lineup consist of Paulino, Bautista, SS and pitcher is U-G-L-Y against right-handers. Way too many easy innings for the opposing pitcher.


I agree with you here Bucfan. If we see this I'm sure NH does too. That's why I expect him to get another catcher in here if Doumit is out for an extended period of time.

He will bring another catcher in. He's on his way to St. Louis from Indianapolis as we speak, but I don't know his name. Probably Chavez. Dealing for another catcher would be unwise, because that means you've given up something of value so that you can be stuck with three catchers in a month or so. And if you don't give up anything of value, the guy you get probably is no better than Chavez or Maldonado.


I disagree. As long as the team has a chance to contend -- and it does at this point -- I think management has an obligation to make this team as good as possible. I wouldn't go dealing Pearce or McCutchen, but you might find someone on the waiver wire or be able to pull of a Yates-like deal (one that doesn't involving giving up much) to get yourself another option behind the plate.

A situation that sees Paulino not having to compete with anyone didn't work last year. It would be foolish to expect different results from the same situation this year.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7239
Elmer wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But having the bottom of the lineup consist of Paulino, Bautista, SS and pitcher is U-G-L-Y against right-handers. Way too many easy innings for the opposing pitcher.


I agree with you here Bucfan. If we see this I'm sure NH does too. That's why I expect him to get another catcher in here if Doumit is out for an extended period of time.


Paulino had a nice double last night and had a nice double deep against Atlanta Saturday...I think he's starting to come around, hes hitting it to the gap opposite field, something he did when he is hitting well...
plus his defense has been better this season too...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:08 pm 
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
But having the bottom of the lineup consist of Paulino, Bautista, SS and pitcher is U-G-L-Y against right-handers. Way too many easy innings for the opposing pitcher.


I agree with you here Bucfan. If we see this I'm sure NH does too. That's why I expect him to get another catcher in here if Doumit is out for an extended period of time.


Paulino had a nice double last night and had a nice double deep against Atlanta Saturday...I think he's starting to come around, hes hitting it to the gap opposite field, something he did when he is hitting well...
plus his defense has been better this season too...


I agree, but I think he feels pressured to preform when he's in there because of how Doumit is playing. With Doumit out and no threat, I'm not sure Paulino will continue to do that.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:10 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Elmer wrote:
I agree, but I think he feels pressured to preform when he's in there because of how Doumit is playing. With Doumit out and no threat, I'm not sure Paulino will continue to do that.


You don't think the fact that Doumit stands a chance to reclaim the starting job as soon as he is healthy is a threat?

If he wants to be a starting catcher, he needs to play his ass off the next 2 weeks. I think that is plenty of motivation.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:15 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I agree, but I think he feels pressured to preform when he's in there because of how Doumit is playing. With Doumit out and no threat, I'm not sure Paulino will continue to do that.


You don't think the fact that Doumit stands a chance to reclaim the starting job as soon as he is healthy is a threat?

If he wants to be a starting catcher, he needs to play his ass off the next 2 weeks. I think that is plenty of motivation.


I can think of millions of reasons why Paulino should be trying his best, one dollar at a time!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5121
Location: Pittsburgh
Elmer wrote:
I disagree. As long as the team has a chance to contend -- and it does at this point -- I think management has an obligation to make this team as good as possible. I wouldn't go dealing Pearce or McCutchen, but you might find someone on the waiver wire or be able to pull of a Yates-like deal (one that doesn't involving giving up much) to get yourself another option behind the plate.

Who do you suggest they target, and what minor leaguer should they offer for him?

Quote:
A situation that sees Paulino not having to compete with anyone didn't work last year. It would be foolish to expect different results from the same situation this year.

Who was Paulino competing with when he hit .300 in 2006? If you recall, Doumit spent the better part of three months on the DL that year, and was limited to pinch hitting for much of time he was active.

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:38 pm 
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I agree, but I think he feels pressured to preform when he's in there because of how Doumit is playing. With Doumit out and no threat, I'm not sure Paulino will continue to do that.


You don't think the fact that Doumit stands a chance to reclaim the starting job as soon as he is healthy is a threat?

If he wants to be a starting catcher, he needs to play his ass off the next 2 weeks. I think that is plenty of motivation.


It could be. I hope you are right. But if it's only two weeks then I'm not worried. I'm more concerned about if Doumit is out for months with one of those lingering finger issues.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Batting Order
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:40 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I disagree. As long as the team has a chance to contend -- and it does at this point -- I think management has an obligation to make this team as good as possible. I wouldn't go dealing Pearce or McCutchen, but you might find someone on the waiver wire or be able to pull of a Yates-like deal (one that doesn't involving giving up much) to get yourself another option behind the plate.

Who do you suggest they target, and what minor leaguer should they offer for him?

Quote:
A situation that sees Paulino not having to compete with anyone didn't work last year. It would be foolish to expect different results from the same situation this year.

Who was Paulino competing with when he hit .300 in 2006? If you recall, Doumit spent the better part of three months on the DL that year, and was limited to pinch hitting for much of time he was active.


In 06 he was a rookie trying to prove himself. I think that was motivation enough. It was once he "succeeded" that he turned into joggin Ronnie.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits