Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:05 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:20 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4896
From another thread, an interesting 'experiment':

val wrote:
That poses an interesting question, to me at least. Who do you consider to be the 20 best hitters in the Majors, however you want to define hitting, and regardless of position and age (though potential 100 game suspensions do count)? Is McCutchen on that list?


What does your list look like?

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 761
Location: Rochester, New York
I don't watch enough baseball to rank outside of the top two but my list would include:
  • Miggy
  • Molina
  • Trout
  • Wright
  • Longoria
  • Votto
  • Cutch
  • Posey
  • Cano
  • Braun
  • Tulowitzki

Past that I don't have enough tape/info to get 9 more guys (until you guys remind me of others).


Last edited by JollyRoger on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:28 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:21 am
Posts: 4896
Would have to think about order, but:

AL: Miggy, Prince, Adam Jones, Cano, Longoria
NL: Votto, Posey, Tulo, CarGo, Cutch, Braun

In the Mix: Pedroia, Beltre, David Wright, Mauer, Kipnis, Matt Holliday
Lurking: Trout, Harper, Machado

That's actually 20 names, but there are others in contention as well that it doesn't seem anywhere near definite outside the first 11.

_________________
Rage, rage against the regression of the light.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:00 am
Posts: 2793
NSMaster56 wrote:
AL: Miggy, Prince, Adam Jones, Cano, Longoria
NL: Votto, Posey, Tulo, CarGo, Cutch, Braun

In the Mix: Pedroia, Beltre, David Wright, Mauer, Kipnis, Matt Holliday
Lurking: Trout, Harper, Machado


Highly doubtful that you'll see any lists that stray too far from this outside of a few more "on the bubble" picks like a Longoria or Bautista .


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:57 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1133
Location: Eastern Shore
Well, the question started with the claim that Cutch was an elite bat. But is he "more" elite than say, Adrian Gonzalez, who came to mind because he's just behind Cutch in terms of BA. Gonzalez has posted three .900+ OPS seasons (which is my floor for eliteness). For his career he's averaged: 30 doubles, 23 HRs, a .294 BA and an OPS of .829. Cutch, on the other hand, has posted averages of 30 doubles, 18 HRs, BA of .291 and an OPS of .855. Of course, Cutch is better on the base paths, but he does get picked off frequently given his sheer speed. Now, I would much prefer Cutch on a team just because he's a clubhouse leader, plays CF superbly (and CFs are far more valuable than middling 1Bs), and he's got one of the best contracts a small town market team could hope for. But the bats seem comparable.

Braun does not make my list because he's about to go away for a long time, and neither does Pujols just because of his age, but he was in my mind the best hitter of his generation. The same goes for Ichiro and A-Rod, for the same reason.

So, in no particular order other than Cabrera...

Miggy Cabrera
Yadier Molina
Joey Votto
Buster Posey
David Ortiz
Mike Trout
Robinson Cano
Prince Fielder
Carlos Gonzalez
David Wright
Paul Goldshmidt -- small sample size I know, but he's improving nicely on last year
Troy Tulowitzky -- Though I hate hate hate including Rockies in any list like this
Carlos Beltran


OK, that's 13. I was looking for a top 20. I guess there's a host of players who would be at that level, to include Cutch, Adrian Gonzalez, Pujols and rising stars like Bryce Harper, Chris Davis and Manny Machado, and Josh Donaldson, Giancarlo Stanton, Matt Carpenter, and Evan Longoria. Perhaps I have been undervaluing McCutchen.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 3929
Location: Zelienople, PA
Well, I think Cutch is better than many on that list, most specifically Wright, Fielder and Ortiz.

See, I try to look at a lot more than doubles and HR's. Those three will never bunt for a hit, break up a double play, AVOID a double play, or score from 1st on a single - like Cutch can and has done in his career.

And before you take me too far to task, remember it was the sabre crowd who redefined hitting to include metrics that have nothing to do with putting a bat on a thrown baseball. If one can start to look at walks as a measure of a great hitter, I contend you can start looking at other non-bat-swinging peripherals that Cutch can bring that others do not.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:17 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1133
Location: Eastern Shore
ZelieMike wrote:
Well, I think Cutch is better than many on that list, most specifically Wright, Fielder and Ortiz.

See, I try to look at a lot more than doubles and HR's. Those three will never bunt for a hit, break up a double play, AVOID a double play, or score from 1st on a single - like Cutch can and has done in his career.

And before you take me too far to task, remember it was the sabre crowd who redefined hitting to include metrics that have nothing to do with putting a bat on a thrown baseball. If one can start to look at walks as a measure of a great hitter, I contend you can start looking at other non-bat-swinging peripherals that Cutch can bring that others do not.

ZM

I can see why you would feel that Fielder is not as good as Cutch, and you can make the case that Wright is not as good, but no way is Cutch as good as Ortiz has been.

I get the whole avoid the double play angle, of having the speed to force more errors, but those sorts of plays are encapsulated in on base percentage. And guess what? Ortiz, despite being relatively slow, has 5 seasons of .400 or better on base percentage. He's got 5 seasons of 1.000+ OPS and three other seasons of .950 or better. And as we've learned, he can carry the weight of a significantly more tortured fan base than ours, and he spectacularly banished demons when it counted. Ortiz is a great, great batter.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7104
Ortiz is a cheater...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 5:34 pm
Posts: 761
Location: Rochester, New York
nad69dan wrote:
Ortiz is a cheater...


So what? It's not like steroids make one a better baseball player. Might they help the player get stronger and increase their bat speed as a result of added strength? Sure, but the talent still has to be there.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10210
ZelieMike wrote:
Well, I think Cutch is better than many on that list, most specifically Wright, Fielder and Ortiz.

See, I try to look at a lot more than doubles and HR's. Those three will never bunt for a hit, break up a double play, AVOID a double play, or score from 1st on a single - like Cutch can and has done in his career.
ZM

Agree with your observation 100%, Mike, but the question was, "The 20 best HITTERS in MLB," NOT the best players.

My ranking of the 20 best hitters (and power has to be present to qualify ... sorry, no Ichiro or guys akin to him):

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. Miguel Cabrera (he's that freaking good)
3. Robinson Cano
4. Mike Trout
5. Joey Votto
6. Carlos Gonzalez
7. Buster Posey
8. Evan Longoria
9. David Wright
10. Andrew McCutchen
11. Carlos Beltran
12. Prince Fielder
13. Jose Bautista
14. David Ortiz
15. Yadier Molina
16. Paul Goldschmidt
17. Chris Davis
18. Manny Machado
19. Troy Tulowitzki
20. Matt Carpenter
21. Adrian Beltre


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:46 pm
Posts: 4433
Location: Washington, DC
Bucfan wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Well, I think Cutch is better than many on that list, most specifically Wright, Fielder and Ortiz.

See, I try to look at a lot more than doubles and HR's. Those three will never bunt for a hit, break up a double play, AVOID a double play, or score from 1st on a single - like Cutch can and has done in his career.
ZM

Agree with your observation 100%, Mike, but the question was, "The 20 best HITTERS in MLB," NOT the best players.

My ranking of the 20 best hitters (and power has to be present to qualify ... sorry, no Ichiro or guys akin to him):

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. Miguel Cabrera (he's that freaking good)
3. Robinson Cano
4. Mike Trout
5. Joey Votto
6. Carlos Gonzalez
7. Buster Posey
8. Evan Longoria
9. David Wright
10. Andrew McCutchen
11. Carlos Beltran
12. Prince Fielder
13. Jose Bautista
14. David Ortiz
15. Yadier Molina
16. Paul Goldschmidt
17. Chris Davis
18. Manny Machado
19. Troy Tulowitzki
20. Matt Carpenter
21. Adrian Beltre


That's a very good, very accurate list, Bucfan. Still, I'd slate Bryce Harper at about 15 or so.

And, man, if Pedro Alvarez could learn the strike zone a bit better, take a bunch more walks, and reduce his strikeout percentage to just 25% or so, he would be on that list...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Best 20 hitters in MLB?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10210
J_C_Steel wrote:
That's a very good, very accurate list, Bucfan. Still, I'd slate Bryce Harper at about 15 or so.

No doubt a very solid case can be made for him, but his injuries this year have cut down his "volume of work" so much that he just missed out. Can't really argue with somebody who has him top-20, though.

J_C_Steel wrote:
And, man, if Pedro Alvarez could learn the strike zone a bit better, take a bunch more walks, and reduce his strikeout percentage to just 25% or so, he would be on that list...

Truth. If he hits .275, then his OBP is .350 or .360 and his slugging gets over .550. Top-20, no doubt.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits