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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:12 am 
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val wrote:
Animal wrote:
I do hope that Puig does not get in..after a month in majors.

I dunno, I think it's great. I mean, if we accept the twin basic premises of fan voting coupled with each team getting a representative, then the game should be about fun and rewarding the players of the day. And Puig is the player of the 1st half of the season.



Puig is the player of one third of the first half of the season. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:29 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
Whatever do you mean??? ;)

(Mike Williams)


Ahem ... for the years where a reliever was the lone ASG representative, Evan Meek was way worse than Mike Williams in retrospect. Williams at least did have several successful seasons (and even though I don't care about the stat, racked up a ton of saves) and was in the league for 13 years. Meek was a one-year wonder set-up man who was cut from his team two years later and may never reach the majors again.


To be honest, I forgot that Meek was ever an All-Star.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:34 pm 
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val wrote:
And Puig is the player of the 1st half of the season.


From a 'hip' and 'hype' perspective, certainly.

Among other standouts: Chris Davis and Manny Machado have been unreal, too.

'Crush' has as many HR's (33) before the break/in 87 games as he did all last season (137 games)!

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Last edited by NSMaster56 on Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:55 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
val wrote:
And Puig is the player of the 1st half of the season.


From a 'hip' and 'hype' perspective, certainly.

Among other standouts: Chris Davis and Manny Machado have been unreal, too.

'Crash' has as many HR's (33) before the break/in 87 games as he did all last season (137 games)!

True. But that is what the all-star game is all about.

And yeah, being here in O's territory, watching Davis and Machado has been a lot of fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Puig has what, a month in the majors? I don't care if he is hitting .750, he does not belong in the All Star game, not this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:28 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
Whatever do you mean??? ;)

(Mike Williams)


Ahem ... for the years where a reliever was the lone ASG representative, Evan Meek was way worse than Mike Williams in retrospect. Williams at least did have several successful seasons (and even though I don't care about the stat, racked up a ton of saves) and was in the league for 13 years. Meek was a one-year wonder set-up man who was cut from his team two years later and may never reach the majors again.

Meek blew out is arm, which was a major cause of his one year wonder status. If five years of ML pitching, Meek posted a sub-4.00 ERA three times. It took Williams twelve seasons to do it five times. Williams was a career stiff who managed one good year as a closer and one as a setup guy. No problem with his first AS appearance, but his second was a travesty. Jason Kendall hit .325 that year. Brian Giles had a .951 OPS. Reggie Sanders had a .931 OPS and 31 homers. Instead they take the worst pitcher on the Pirates staff, and it took some doing to be the worst pitcher on THAT staff.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:51 pm 
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Pedro Alvarez is an MLB All-Star. That's really great, what a turn around for the guy. Anyone feel like bumping threads from the first month of the season? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:17 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Meek blew out is arm, which was a major cause of his one year wonder status. If five years of ML pitching, Meek posted a sub-4.00 ERA three times. It took Williams twelve seasons to do it five times. Williams was a career stiff who managed one good year as a closer and one as a setup guy. No problem with his first AS appearance, but his second was a travesty. Jason Kendall hit .325 that year. Brian Giles had a .951 OPS. Reggie Sanders had a .931 OPS and 31 homers. Instead they take the worst pitcher on the Pirates staff, and it took some doing to be the worst pitcher on THAT staff.


I wasn't really speaking to Meek and Williams as players, just the original point of lone Pirate ASG representatives in the past who were completely forgettable. Obviously Williams was a terrible pick and I wasn't disputing that other Pirates weren't snubbed that year, nor that Meek was undeserving. Williams was obviously picked due to name recognition and the season he was coming off. Just saying, regardless of the circumstances, Williams did manage a long career in the league while Meek was released two years after his ASG appearance and I have serious doubts if he'll ever be back.

That being said, I think it's being pretty generous to count a year in which he threw a mere 20 innings (and walked 12 batters) as one of those sub-4.00 ERA seasons for Meek. His control issues always scared me and I always doubted if his success was sustainable. When he had the considerable velocity reduction he was a major risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:28 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Meek blew out is arm, which was a major cause of his one year wonder status. If five years of ML pitching, Meek posted a sub-4.00 ERA three times. It took Williams twelve seasons to do it five times. Williams was a career stiff who managed one good year as a closer and one as a setup guy. No problem with his first AS appearance, but his second was a travesty. Jason Kendall hit .325 that year. Brian Giles had a .951 OPS. Reggie Sanders had a .931 OPS and 31 homers. Instead they take the worst pitcher on the Pirates staff, and it took some doing to be the worst pitcher on THAT staff.


I wasn't really speaking to Meek and Williams as players, just the original point of lone Pirate ASG representatives in the past who were completely forgettable. Obviously Williams was a terrible pick and I wasn't disputing that other Pirates weren't snubbed that year, nor that Meek was undeserving. Williams was obviously picked due to name recognition and the season he was coming off. Just saying, regardless of the circumstances, Williams did manage a long career in the league while Meek was released two years after his ASG appearance and I have serious doubts if he'll ever be back.

That being said, I think it's being pretty generous to count a year in which he threw a mere 20 innings (and walked 12 batters) as one of those sub-4.00 ERA seasons for Meek. His control issues always scared me and I always doubted if his success was sustainable. When he had the considerable velocity reduction he was a major risk.

I'd have been happy to include any low inning season that Williams managed a sub 4.00 ERA, but in his partial seasons he tended to suck just as badly as he did in a vast majority of his full seasons, and it isn't like Meek was farmed out in that short season, he blew his arm out. Meek was a far, far better pitcher in the season he went to the AS game than Williams was in 2003. In fact, he was a much better pitcher that year than Williams was in his first AS season.

As for name recognition, Kendall, Giles and Sanders managed 6 AS appearances between them before 2003, so it isn't like nobody had ever heard of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:06 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
As for name recognition, Kendall, Giles and Sanders managed 6 AS appearances between them before 2003, so it isn't like nobody had ever heard of them.


Well like I said, I agree that others were snubbed and that it was an awful choice, that wasn't the point I was making. And I just said Williams got in due to name recognition (mostly due to his previous season) because that seems like a reality given that his numbers were awful. Unless you're arguing that he got in due to some other reason, which I wouldn't be aware of.


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 Post subject: Re: Four Pirates make All-Star team
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:23 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
As for name recognition, Kendall, Giles and Sanders managed 6 AS appearances between them before 2003, so it isn't like nobody had ever heard of them.


Well like I said, I agree that others were snubbed and that it was an awful choice, that wasn't the point I was making. And I just said Williams got in due to name recognition (mostly due to his previous season) because that seems like a reality given that his numbers were awful. Unless you're arguing that he got in due to some other reason, which I wouldn't be aware of.

I think he got in because of the myth of the closer and the misguided belief that saves actually mean something.

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