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 Post subject: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:22 am 
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so what would you consider to be a successful season for the 2013 pirates?

1. would finishing above .500 for the first time in 20 years be enough?
2. how about not winning the division, but making the postseason as the wild card team, but not making it past the first round?
3. how about winning the division, but not winning the pennant?
4. or are you an all or nothing type of fan, i.e. anything short of winning the world series can't be considered a successful season?

me? if the bucs make the postseason, whether it's as the division winner or a wild card team, that's enough for me in terms of considering it a successful season. of course doing more than that would be awfully sweet.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:31 am 
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We've answered this question at the beginning of the season. Of course, that was before we owned the best record in the majors.

Still, for me, breaking .500 will make this a memorable season. I want 0 for 20 off our backs. And 81 wins won't be enough, I want 82. After that, everything else is gravy.

So, welcome to the boards. Just wondering, are you in any way related (given the relative uniqueness of your name) to Tommy Prothro, former head coach at Oregon State and the San Diego Chargers???


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:55 am 
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I have been feeling this way up until the recent hot streak. The way others kept looking at the .500 mark in the rearview mirror nervously, I had looked at ten games over .500. During that stretch with the Braves and Reds, I kept looking for that one win to avoid the sweep, to keep us at 12, 13, or 14 games over. I think they bottomed out at 10 after the Braves sweep.

So that's still my marker for the season's success. Ten games over. Anything less than 86-76 I consider a disappointment, especially given the improved talent.

BTW if they fall back and play only .450 ball, not a total collapse they win 87.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:03 am 
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Since we are ten games up on the second Wild Card spot I think it would be disappointing if we don't make the Wild Card game... however, if we do not make it and we still finish over .500 it would be a huge relief to have the dreaded streak off our backs... so finishing above .500 would be fantastic and making the playoffs would be amazing... Either way, seeing that I am only 20 years old, this is by far the most fun I have ever had watching baseball.

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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:05 am 
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WORD THAT RHYMES WITH "TRADEOFFS."


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Break .500. That's all I wanted going into the year and would keep them ahead of schedule, given the overhaul and the starting point.

If Locke keeps this up (reasonably....I'm not holding him to a 2.1 ERA standard), Cole shows improvement, and Marte and Pedro keep producing about what they have, it'll be an extremely encouraging season to me.

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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:20 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Break .500. That's all I wanted going into the year and would keep them ahead of schedule, given the overhaul and the starting point.

If Locke keeps this up (reasonably....I'm not holding him to a 2.1 ERA standard), Cole shows improvement, and Marte and Pedro keep producing about what they have, it'll be an extremely encouraging season to me.


C'mon, man. If the Pirates play 20 games under .500 in the second half and finish 82-80, you're going to consider it a "successful season"? Really?

51-30 first halfs don't happen very often, not even for legitimately great teams. Gotta take advantage of it.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:24 pm 
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I'll be partially satisfied for .500, excited for playoff berth, giddy for a division title with many games to spare. Burn a couch out on the street excited for a World Series Title.

I just want to watch a Pirate baseball game on my birthday (10-16, also Prince of Pittsburgh's birthday)

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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:25 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
Break .500. That's all I wanted going into the year and would keep them ahead of schedule, given the overhaul and the starting point.

If Locke keeps this up (reasonably....I'm not holding him to a 2.1 ERA standard), Cole shows improvement, and Marte and Pedro keep producing about what they have, it'll be an extremely encouraging season to me.


C'mon, man. If the Pirates play 20 games under .500 in the second half and finish 82-80, you're going to consider it a "successful season"? Really?

51-30 first halfs don't happen very often, not even for legitimately great teams. Gotta take advantage of it.

I will. Obviously, it will be disheartening to collapse like that, but we've had two such collapses on the trot that left us below .500 and I want the streak to stop. This is record I don't want any part of.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Given what all the the preseason projections, predictions, and prognostications were, I'd consider above .500 to be overachieving.

Changing expectations based on an unexpected half a season seems arbitrary and likely doing nothing but setting yourself up for disappointment.

Playoffs would be awesome. Not gonna call it an unsuccessful season if they don't do it.

Like I said, .500 has them ahead of schedule given the trainwreck they were when the rebuild process began.

If the young guys who are crucial to their success in the future keep it up until the end, can't see how this would be anything but an encouraging season for the future.

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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:39 pm 
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I can see them doing well the rest of the year, even with a "regression" (side bar, didn't they used to call "regression" a "slump"?... ah, another thread). I can also see them in 3rd place with 88 wins, and getting knocked out of a one game playoff by another Strasburg 14K performance.

That would still get them a parade through Oakland by my standards.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Guys. I'm not trying to be unreasonable here, but no matter how good the Pirates are projected to be in 2014, 2015, etc., how many times do you think we'll see a 51-30 first half? I mean, seriously. These kinds of seasons don't come along very often.

SEIZE THE DAY.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:06 pm 
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imo it will be tough to consider it a successful season if the pirates go 31-50 to finish out the year, even if it means breaking the .500 mark for the first time in twenty years, especially considering their history of caving down the stretch.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:08 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
Given what all the the preseason projections, predictions, and prognostications were, I'd consider above .500 to be overachieving.

Changing expectations based on an unexpected half a season seems arbitrary and likely doing nothing but setting yourself up for disappointment.

Playoffs would be awesome. Not gonna call it an unsuccessful season if they don't do it.


Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:50 pm 
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This thread shows what 20 years of losing coupled with 2 collapses does to a fan base.

I believe in this team. Do they have areas they can get better? Sure, but there isn't a perfect team out there. Right now we have the best record in baseball and are currently playing by anyone's standards as well as anyone. Amazingly to me, quite a few would be happy breaking .500. Wow, that's all I can say.

I don't think there is a limit to what THIS team can accomplish. Not next year, not 2015. These guys right now.

Jump on the bandwagon with me. Your Pittsburgh Pirates have no intention of settling for .500 and we shouldn't either. Believe in these guys. Will I end up this year disappointed? Maybe, but I'll be happy with the direction they're headed and be proud of them no matter what.

There's only 1 NL team that scares me and that's the Dodgers.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:56 pm 
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I think there's a difference between hoping for the playoffs and setting the playoffs as the bar by which we judge a season's success.

I'm not saying I'm not hoping for the playoffs. Just that I'm not raising my bar to make that the standard based on one half of a season.

If they break .500 and don't make the playoffs, I won't bitch a bit because that's a big step in the right direction given the composition of the team. That, to me, is a success.

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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Scoobiedoo wrote:
Right now we have the best record in baseball and are currently playing by anyone's standards as well as anyone. Amazingly to me, quite a few would be happy breaking .500. Wow, that's all I can say.


You're mis-characterizing what people are saying regarding breaking .500. Considering the projections and realistic expectations of this being an average team (maybe slightly worse or slightly better), having a winning season in itself would be considered an accomplishment, and I wouldn't believe anyone who said it wouldn't otherwise (alternatively, think about what people would have had to say about the acceptance of a hypothetical winning season vs. making playoffs before the season started). That isn't at all to say that it's "settling" or that there wouldn't be inevitable disappointment if there were to be a third consecutive second half swoon considering the wildcard advantage they have currently built up. Staying realistic and not expecting the current pace to equate to a 100+ win season is just a reality. Optimism is obviously high at this point but to borrow on something SA said above, changing your realistic views and potentially setting yourself up for disappointment with half of the season left to play is what it is. Especially considering people should have learned that lesson given how the last two years have went. Yes, I don't believe we'll see that this year given the depth and improvement of the team. But ultimately I'm not going to consider a winning season and a significant bridge for the future a disappointment.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Why wouldn't your expectations change? The pirates get an open window for a much smaller time than other teams. THE WINDOW IS WIDE OPEN...RIGHT NOW! Sure a bunch of us had low expectations to start. That's the great part of fandom...when that team you live and die with surprises you. Heck, 82-80 would mean a third second half collapse in a row. Ending the losing streak would be great, but it would still leave a bitter taste in my mouth. This team may not make the playoffs, but they should be in it right to the end.

Some of you say they are ahead of schedule. Who made that schedule? We've heard five year plan after five year plan. This team looks ready now. When a few more young guns get here it just means they will be MORE ready.

I'm ready for playoff baseball...this season! That will mark a successful end to this season.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:29 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
I think there's a difference between hoping for the playoffs and setting the playoffs as the bar by which we judge a season's success.

I'm not saying I'm not hoping for the playoffs. Just that I'm not raising my bar to make that the standard based on one half of a season.

If they break .500 and don't make the playoffs, I won't bitch a bit because that's a big step in the right direction given the composition of the team. That, to me, is a success.


That's a hell of a post. I'm raising my bar of expectations for the year based on the huge lead they've built up but if they flatten out and miss while still winning 88 games it would be hypocritical to call the season a failure given that I thought they were a 78 win team going in.

How about they keep ringing people up and make the whole discussion moot. Get 'em Bucs.


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 Post subject: Re: What's A Successful Season?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:33 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
Why wouldn't your expectations change? The pirates get an open window for a much smaller time than other teams. THE WINDOW IS WIDE OPEN...RIGHT NOW! Sure a bunch of us had low expectations to start. That's the great part of fandom...when that team you live and die with surprises you. Heck, 82-80 would mean a third second half collapse in a row. Ending the losing streak would be great, but it would still leave a bitter taste in my mouth. This team may not make the playoffs, but they should be in it right to the end.

Some of you say they are ahead of schedule. Who made that schedule? We've heard five year plan after five year plan. This team looks ready now. When a few more young guns get here it just means they will be MORE ready.

I'm ready for playoff baseball...this season! That will mark a successful end to this season.


I'm definitely not thinking in terms of a short term window, and I doubt that Pirates management is either. We finally have a good team. And I think it can be even better next year, and that we can have a good team for many years into the forseeable future.

At this point anything less than a playoff berth would be a disappointment, but do you really think this team is as good as its record? I sure don't. So I'm not looking for 102 wins. I think 90 would be just swell.


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