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 Post subject: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:27 pm 
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Ok . . . first off . . . when it comes to looking "ugly," the play in which Liriano was thrown out at home, on its face, was about as "ugly" as it could get.

But, let me offer the following in Liriano's defense.

First and foremost, Liriano pulls a plow on the basepaths. A wide and heavy plow. I'm willing to wager that he may be the slowest player on the current roster.

Second, Liriano's voyage from first to third on Marte's double evidenced that he is not only slow, but does not know how to efficiently manuever from base to base.

Third, a fair amount of baserunning is instinctual and is built on experience. Liriano has an extremely limited amount of experience on the basepaths since landing in MLB.

With Marte on second and Liriano on third and the defense playing "in," I'm willing to bet a lot of money that the third base coach told Liriano "you don't break for home unless the ball gets through the infield." You don't send Liriano on contact with the infield drawn in. That's just asking for him to be thrown out. (I digress here. Still amazed that Brewers' manager had infield playing all the way in instead of just halfway. Didn't need to play all the way in to hold Liriano at third base)

Liriano did not break on contact. He froze to see if the ball got through the infield. He broke towards home about the time that Weeks dove for the ball. He then stopped when he saw that Weeks actually gloved the ball - which would be consistent with the instruction to "make it get through the infield." Unfortunately, by that time, Marte was actually 2/3 of the way to third base which then led Liriano to start running again. And we know how that turned out.

Had Liriano broken on contact and Weeks come up throwing immediately, I think that it would have been close at home because Liriano is so slow. I doubt, however, that Weeks would have thrown home if Liriano had broken immediately. I think that he would have taken the out. Weeks double clutched when he saw Liriano hesitating which led to a delayed throw home and the tag out. And, ultimately, it looked worse than it really was.

An experienced base runner and one who is not only slightly faster than Rod Barajas would have scored there. But . . . I don't blame the 3rd base coach for telling Liriano to make it go through the infield and I don't blame Liriano for his seemingly "mixed" reaction to the play. Just a bad break. But . . . it sure did look UGLY.

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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:42 pm 
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I agree with you 100%, at the time I couldn't believe my eyes. What was he thinking, it was ugly. First to third was bad enough, but home was brutal. He spent much of his career in the American, didn't he. Did not have to run the bases. Next time, unhook the plow. Well stated.


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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:45 pm 
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I dunno, No. 9. Marte went on contact. Liriano should have as well. We're speculating about what Leyva may or may not have said.


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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:48 pm 
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How is Liriano's English? He might have missed the call to go.

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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:07 pm 
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This is all you need to know about Fransico Liriano and baserunning (from his AAA rehab assignment earlier this year).

Image


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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Actually, this was topic of rain delay discussion.

Kevin Orie (sp?), he of Cubs 3b fame, made a similar argument. But, he said that all players would have been told to run on contact EXCEPT if it is a line drive. Then wait to see if it is caught. Apparently that is the standard today. The ball that was hit was a line drive that short hopped Weeks, so I can see what Liriano, with those instructions, would hesitate between a short hop line drive, career in DH AL, and chops that move like mine.

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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:25 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I dunno, No. 9. Marte went on contact. Liriano should have as well. We're speculating about what Leyva may or may not have said.


If the call was truly for Liriano to break on contact, you could knock me over with a feather. If Marte and McCutchen are on third base, its a gamble having them break on contact and they are not only fast but they are experienced. Hell, Gomez broke on contact in the next inning and Walker threw him out by a fairly wide margin on a ball that was not hit right at Walker and one which required Walker to make a great backhand pick.

Outside of the unlikley scenario which actually took place on Saturday, there is really nothing to be gained by sending Liriano. He is going to be dead meat on any ball that is easily fielded by an infielder. Liriano might (and I stress MIGHT) score if an infielder makes a spectacular play on a ball - like Weeks did. Liriano scores if the ball gets through. Weighing all possibilities, there is no reason to have Liriano break on contact. Liriano also does not have the speed or the experience to make a quick read on the ball of the bat.

Liriano break on contact? Very little upside; all sorts of downside.

As for Marte breaking on contact . . . I'm betting that he broke based on his "read" of the ball and his thought that it was going to be a hit. Martin hit it hard and he'd have a pretty good vantage point to read the ball off of Martin's bat. Weeks just made a fantastic play and Liriano didn't know how to react.

Tough break at the time. Real tough break.

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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:44 pm 
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I have seen the gif of Liriano "running" the bases in Indianapolis about 10 times now ... and it is just as funny the 10th time around. :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:15 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
With Marte on second and Liriano on third and the defense playing "in," I'm willing to bet a lot of money that the third base coach told Liriano "you don't break for home unless the ball gets through the infield." You don't send Liriano on contact with the infield drawn in. That's just asking for him to be thrown out. (I digress here. Still amazed that Brewers' manager had infield playing all the way in instead of just halfway. Didn't need to play all the way in to hold Liriano at third base)

Liriano did not break on contact. He froze to see if the ball got through the infield. He broke towards home about the time that Weeks dove for the ball. He then stopped when he saw that Weeks actually gloved the ball - which would be consistent with the instruction to "make it get through the infield." Unfortunately, by that time, Marte was actually 2/3 of the way to third base which then led Liriano to start running again. And we know how that turned out.


I still must be missing something here and I'm still of the opinion that a runner on 3B should not break for HP unless the ball clearly makes it through the infield.

I would think that if that was the case, Liriano would not have been running, and Marte, who was behind him on 2B, would have stayed on 2B. The ball was not clearly through the infield IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:11 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
I have seen the gif of Liriano "running" the bases in Indianapolis about 10 times now ... and it is just as funny the 10th time around. :lol: :lol:

That truly is funny. And it's what makes minor league ball soooo much fun. One game I saw three catcher interferences. I don't think I've ever seen it before, I had no idea what the call was...


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 Post subject: Re: In defense of Francisco Liriano's baserunning . . .
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:37 am 
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val wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
I have seen the gif of Liriano "running" the bases in Indianapolis about 10 times now ... and it is just as funny the 10th time around. :lol: :lol:

That truly is funny. And it's what makes minor league ball soooo much fun. One game I saw three catcher interferences. I don't think I've ever seen it before, I had no idea what the call was...



The Liriano clip is right up there with Bobby Meacham and Dale Berra both being tagged out at home within seconds by Carlton Fisk.

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