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A least the Pirates don't......
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Author:  old juan [ Mon May 12, 2008 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  A least the Pirates don't......

Bat out of order like the Reds.
lose after 22 innnings like the Padres.
Have Zito.

Author:  Jeremy [ Mon May 12, 2008 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Actually, the Bucs used to bat their pitcher 8th.

Waaaaaaaay back in the day.

Author:  sisyphus [ Mon May 12, 2008 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Jeremy wrote:
Actually, the Bucs used to bat their pitcher 8th.

Waaaaaaaay back in the day.

I know that they did that occasionally when Bob Friend was pitching. My Dad told me that they'd do that because Friend was such a good hitter. I always took that at face value, but I just looked up Friend's stats and he couldn 't hit a lick. He must have gotten that reputation because he had a big year at the plate in 1954, when he hit .275 with an OPS of .731 and had a double, a triple and a homer. Unfortunately, that was the only season that he didn't hit like a typical pitcher. His lifetime average was .121.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/f/frienbo01.shtml

I went back and checked the batting orders for 1956, and it turned out that the Pirates batted their pitcher SEVENTH. Not just once, but 21 times, including 20 times in a row. It had nothing to do with the hitting ability of the pitchers. Apparently Bobby Bragan was even more of a genius than Tony LaRussa or Ned Yost. The Pirates went 9-11 in those games (one was an eight inning tie) for a win percentage of .450. Their win percentage for game with the pitchers hitting in the conventional ninth spot was .425. Maybe they should have hit their pitcher seventh all year.

Author:  old juan [ Mon May 12, 2008 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

When I said the Reds batted out of order I meant they batted out of order. The wrong guy hit in the 9th inning for the Reds Vs. the Mets on Sunday. The Umpire said he had not seen anything like it in his 23 years. Willie Randolf of the Mets came out of the dugout to tell the Umps what had happened. They had a 10 min talk among themselves to figure out the ruling. I beleave the player who batted out of turn got a single. And then was called out on a "Catcher Unassisted".

Author:  chetthespian [ Mon May 12, 2008 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

That happened last year in a Blue Jays game, I think Aaron Hill hit when he was suppossed to, but I don't remember the specifics.

Author:  Bob in Boston [ Mon May 12, 2008 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

chetthespian wrote:
That happened last year in a Blue Jays game, I think Aaron Hill hit when he was suppossed to, but I don't remember the specifics.


Good memory, Chet. According to ESPN, it happened Sept. 1 vs. Seattle.

Quote:
In an unusual gaffe, the Blue Jays cost themselves a chance to score in the second when Lyle Overbay and Aaron Hill batted out of order. After the umpires huddled to discuss the situation, Hill was called out. Overbay continued to bat ahead of Hill for the rest of the game.

Author:  DocJeanO [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Sisyphus, Bob Friend WAS a terrible hitter. As I recall, he'd walk up and take half hearted swings and walk back to the dugout. When he walked off the mound, he'd let his right arm (pitching arm) sort of dangle there like he was afraid of breaking it. Vernon Law, however, was a pretty fair hitter and always took his hacks. Harvey Haddix also was ok, but not as good a hitter as the Deacon.

Author:  Substitute2 [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

WOW Doc those are some electric names from my childhood. I hadn't thought of them in years. Thanks for jogging my youthful memories.
The Deacon
The Dog
The Great One
The Tiger

WOW WOW WOW

(that's mom upside down of course)

Author:  DocJeanO [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Sub, my youth too!! Those were the years when the Pirates still had a chance to win, and were able to keep their best players. I realize that free agency is good for the players, but really a bummer for the fans and city. Remember, Tiger, Kitten, Dog, Quail, Deacon, Vinegar Bend, Elroy, Smoky, Rocky, Big Stu, Dick, Hal, and of course, Maz and The Great One!!

Author:  Omar Moreno Fan [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

I remember in the early 80s, when Lee Lacy hit 7th and got on with no one out, Tanner would have Dale Berra sacrifice bunt if Rick Rhoden or Don Robinson were hitting 9th.

Author:  Welfare_Fraud [ Mon May 12, 2008 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Jeremy wrote:
Actually, the Bucs used to bat their pitcher 8th.

Waaaaaaaay back in the day.



St. Louis does it today

Author:  Bob in Boston [ Mon May 12, 2008 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Omar Moreno Fan wrote:
I remember in the early 80s, when Lee Lacy hit 7th and got on with no one out, Tanner would have Dale Berra sacrifice bunt if Rick Rhoden or Don Robinson were hitting 9th.


Don Robinson: Now there was a good-hitting pitcher, and he had HR power, too.

Author:  sisyphus [ Mon May 12, 2008 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

DocJeanO wrote:
Sisyphus, Bob Friend WAS a terrible hitter. As I recall, he'd walk up and take half hearted swings and walk back to the dugout. When he walked off the mound, he'd let his right arm (pitching arm) sort of dangle there like he was afraid of breaking it. Vernon Law, however, was a pretty fair hitter and always took his hacks. Harvey Haddix also was ok, but not as good a hitter as the Deacon.

Well there you go. It's possible that my Dad remembered Friend's one good hear at the plate (he was about 16 at the time), or that he confused Friend and Law, or that I'm confusing Friend and Law.

Author:  sisyphus [ Mon May 12, 2008 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Omar Moreno Fan wrote:
I remember in the early 80s, when Lee Lacy hit 7th and got on with no one out, Tanner would have Dale Berra sacrifice bunt if Rick Rhoden or Don Robinson were hitting 9th.

Well, Rhoden and Robinson were both better hitters than Berra, lol.

Seriously though, they weren't much worse than Berra. Rhoden's lifetime OPS+ was 59, Robinson's was 62, and Berra's was 76. Rhoden had 9 homers, Robinson 13. Berra averaged one HR every 52 ABs; Robinson out slugged him with one per 48 ABs Both of them were often used as pinch hitters. I think that Rhoden could have made it to the majors as a hitter if he hadn't injured his leg so badly as a child, and Robinson might have been able to make it as well. This assumes that both would have been free to concentrate on their hitting, of course.

Little known fact: I didn't remember this, but I recently read about it somewhere and went back to check. The 1984 Pirates went 75-87, finishing last in the NL East. In their last game of the season, a meaningless second game of a double header against the fourth place Phillies, Chuck Tanner started Don Robinson in left field and batted him third. He went one for two with a strikeout and singled in one run. He recorded two putouts in the field and was removed for a pinch hitter (Doug Frobel) after 5 innings.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes ... 9302.shtml

Author:  Willton [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Welfare_Fraud wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Actually, the Bucs used to bat their pitcher 8th.

Waaaaaaaay back in the day.

St. Louis does it today

As does Milwaukee. And it's as stupid now as it was then.

Author:  Piratefan13 [ Tue May 13, 2008 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

DocJeanO wrote:
Sub, my youth too!! Those were the years when the Pirates still had a chance to win, and were able to keep their best players. I realize that free agency is good for the players, but really a bummer for the fans and city. Remember, Tiger, Kitten, Dog, Quail, Deacon, Vinegar Bend, Elroy, Smoky, Rocky, Big Stu, Dick, Hal, and of course, Maz and The Great One!!


Maz!!

Author:  old juan [ Tue May 13, 2008 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

I saw Kip Wells hit the green wall behind the Pirates shrubs in center field at P.N.C.

Author:  Substitute2 [ Tue May 13, 2008 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

Boy are right 13, Maz! - nuff said and well said

Author:  Bob in Boston [ Tue May 13, 2008 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A least the Pirates don't......

DocJeanO wrote:
Sub, my youth too!! Those were the years when the Pirates still had a chance to win, and were able to keep their best players. I realize that free agency is good for the players, but really a bummer for the fans and city. Remember, Tiger, Kitten, Dog, Quail, Deacon, Vinegar Bend, Elroy, Smoky, Rocky, Big Stu, Dick, Hal, and of course, Maz and The Great One!!


Not to mention, up in the broadcast booth, the Gunner and the Possum.

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