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 Post subject: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:39 pm 
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http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/i ... han-closer

Red Sox acquired Hanrahan due to a lack of faith in Homer Bailey. Now . . . Bailey is closer and Hanrahan will be the set up man.

The screaming from the soap box over the Hanrahan/Holt for Melancon/Sands trade is strangely quiet. I'm hearing crickets chirping . . .

Looking like more outstanding analysis from the critics who receive paychecks from the PPG and the T-R. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:08 pm 
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Truth.

And to me, the interesting thing is that most of us here - BD, Sisyphus, etc. - looked beyond Melancon's ERA and found that he had a lot to offer. Mid 90's heat, really good work in August and September, younger, better FIP than Hanrahan, less expensive, etc.

The only ones who seemed to have screwed the pooch on analyzing the deal were the guys who get paid for their analysis, i.e., Pittsburgh sportswriters.


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Melancon's achievements aside, Pimentel has looked like the best piece acquired in this trade...

Okay why hate on the PPG employees? Hindsight is 20/20 you can say they look bad with how they bashed this trade at the time it happened, but you could also say the Pirates regime looks 10x worse for all the dumb moves they have made in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:18 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Melancon's achievements aside, Pimentel has looked like the best piece acquired in this trade...

Okay why hate on the PPG employees? Hindsight is 20/20 you can say they look bad with how they bashed this trade at the time it happened, but you could also say the Pirates regime looks 10x worse for all the dumb moves they have made in the past.


Not all the those dumb moves were from this group that is currently in charge...Sometimes there's more there than just looking at ERA's and batting averages. Then there's other who could care less and still be bitter the team traded away Jack Wilson and Nate McLouth.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:20 pm 
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I generally had no problem with the trade. I just didn't want to give up Brock Holt, who I saw as a potential starter at 2B if Walker's back became a chronic problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:07 am 
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I thought Holt was marginal. Good contact hitter but that was about it. I don't think he'll make it as a regular.

That cutter or whatever it is that Melancon throws is filthy. If he can locate that consistently he doesn't need much else.


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:22 pm 
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I think we crushed them in that trade. Melancon alone, looks like he would put it in our favor. But Stolmy looks like he has the stuff to at least be a good bullpen guy. And while Sands hasn't done anything in AAA yet, he still has power potential. They could of done a lot worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:46 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/9228287/boston-red-sox-going-andrew-bailey-joel-hanrahan-closer

Red Sox acquired Hanrahan due to a lack of faith in Homer Bailey. Now . . . Bailey is closer and Hanrahan will be the set up man.

You mean Andrew Bailey. Homer Bailey is a starter for the Reds.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 1:25 pm 
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I'm not giving this deal a thumbs up when we're not even 1/6 of the way thru the year...great start, but there's a LONG way to go...


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:02 pm 
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Poe -
You may be closer than you think to reaching a definitive diagnosis on the trade. Hanrahan is hurt again and there are some ominous signs surrounding his complaints of pain.

As for the "anyone can close" hypothesis, it is about to be tested in Beantown. Bailey is on DL for Red Sox. Hanrahan is hurting and won't pitch for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:09 pm 
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I'd word it as 'any good reliever can close'.

Jonathan Sanchez would make an awful closer.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 12:34 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
Poe -
You may be closer than you think to reaching a definitive diagnosis on the trade. Hanrahan is hurt again and there are some ominous signs surrounding his complaints of pain.

As for the "anyone can close" hypothesis, it is about to be tested in Beantown. Bailey is on DL for Red Sox. Hanrahan is hurting and won't pitch for a while.


He's gonna be out for quite awhile if the injury is as sever as I think it is.
Tough break for Joel...certainly gives the Bucs a steal in the short-term if Melancon continues to pitch well and Hanrahan stays on the DL


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:51 am 
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House of Poe wrote:
No. 9 wrote:
Poe -
You may be closer than you think to reaching a definitive diagnosis on the trade. Hanrahan is hurt again and there are some ominous signs surrounding his complaints of pain.

As for the "anyone can close" hypothesis, it is about to be tested in Beantown. Bailey is on DL for Red Sox. Hanrahan is hurting and won't pitch for a while.


He's gonna be out for quite awhile if the injury is as sever as I think it is.
Tough break for Joel...certainly gives the Bucs a steal in the short-term if Melancon continues to pitch well and Hanrahan stays on the DL


To me, even if Stolmy makes it as a fifth starter, the Pirates got the better deal all day and twice on Sunday, even with a Sunday lineup in.

I'm not a big fan of the "winning trades" philosophy overall. I think trades should be about addressing needs. To that end, the Pirates got a very serviceable set up man, even if he came with question marks.

They also got a potential starter (same caveat), and their 213th 1B/RF candidate.

With Grilli pitching the way he did last year, and Hanrahan commanding the salary he was WHILE looking VERY rocky last year, I think this trade was close to a no brainer for the Bucs.

I do realize that's very easy to say in hindsight, especially given Joel's injuries and unfortunate performance, but it does get back the argument that if you have two live arms that can close, you really should consider moving one for overpayment.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:25 am 
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To me, simply not paying Hanrahan $6 MM alone was enough to make it a good deal . Everything else is gravy.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:35 am 
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Quote:
I do realize that's very easy to say in hindsight, especially given Joel's injuries and unfortunate performance, but it does get back the argument that if you have two live arms that can close, you really should consider moving one for overpayment.


To be honest, I think even at the time of the trade, most fans who pay attention felt like we won in a big way. As said, simply not paying Hammer in its own, was a big win. And at the time you're getting a talented yet risky back end guy with Melancon, along with a possible rotation guy, and then a once top OF/1st base prospect?

That package has much more upside to us than Hanrahan did at the time. Only thing I misjudged was that I figured Stolmy would be the "wild card - possible failure" of the deal, not Sands.


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:05 pm 
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Leway512 wrote:
Quote:
I do realize that's very easy to say in hindsight, especially given Joel's injuries and unfortunate performance, but it does get back the argument that if you have two live arms that can close, you really should consider moving one for overpayment.


To be honest, I think even at the time of the trade, most fans who pay attention felt like we won in a big way. As said, simply not paying Hammer in its own, was a big win. And at the time you're getting a talented yet risky back end guy with Melancon, along with a possible rotation guy, and then a once top OF/1st base prospect?

That package has much more upside to us than Hanrahan did at the time. Only thing I misjudged was that I figured Stolmy would be the "wild card - possible failure" of the deal, not Sands.


Shhh. There's still time for Stolmy to tank. Don't jinx it :)

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:16 pm 
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Judging from his past numbers, I'd have to imagine that Sands is just off to a really slow start.

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:25 pm 
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Sands will improve of course. He's not going to hit .140.

What happened to Clint Robinson?


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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:27 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Sands will improve of course. He's not going to hit .140.

What happened to Clint Robinson?


Going totally off my aging memory, but I recall him being DFA'd?

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 Post subject: Re: Melancon/Grilli v. Grilli/Hanrahan
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Rochester wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
Sands will improve of course. He's not going to hit .140.

What happened to Clint Robinson?


Going totally off my aging memory, but I recall him being DFA'd?


Correct, I think Toronto claimed him. One of their 20+ waiver claims recently.

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