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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:33 am 
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He has the most raw power of anyone on our team.

He will be a good player for us. This year. At least I hope so.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:12 pm 
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His facial hair is well-groomed.

(That's as good as I can do. The guy is killing my fantasy team.)


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:14 pm 
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I'll give you Jordan Pacheco for him straight-up.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:20 pm 
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Animal wrote:
This is very similar to Garrett Jones and his situation. They are constantly bringing in guys to take his position, yet he keeps out-producing all of them. He certainly is not perfect, but does okay...but fans constantly want to bash him.


Jones has always had a starting job since he came up in 09, even if that meant in a platoon role. So when they brought players in (McGehee, Gaby), they weren't brought in to replace him, they were to platoon so that Jones could keep bashing RHP, while his career OPS against LHP is .590. I'm sure that Jones himself would tell you that a platoon makes sense with him unless he wants to continue to hit LHP like a very bad utility infielder. Plus given that they let Jones consistently play two positions, he ends up getting way more playing time than his given platoon would warrant anyway. I don't agree that "fans constantly bash him" either, at least not in my experience. So I don't think the two are very comparable.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:54 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Animal wrote:
This is very similar to Garrett Jones and his situation. They are constantly bringing in guys to take his position, yet he keeps out-producing all of them. He certainly is not perfect, but does okay...but fans constantly want to bash him.


Jones has always had a starting job since he came up in 09, even if that meant in a platoon role. So when they brought players in (McGehee, Gaby), they weren't brought in to replace him, they were to platoon so that Jones could keep bashing RHP, while his career OPS against LHP is .590. I'm sure that Jones himself would tell you that a platoon makes sense with him unless he wants to continue to hit LHP like a very bad utility infielder. Plus given that they let Jones consistently play two positions, he ends up getting way more playing time than his given platoon would warrant anyway. I don't agree that "fans constantly bash him" either, at least not in my experience. So I don't think the two are very comparable.


From what I've seen, Garrett Jones might be a platoon player BUT the "RH hitting" players he is suppose to share a platoon role with or have shared a platoon role with have not been as strong a player(s) or as productive a player(s) as Jones.

According to the current Pirate roster...IMO...I would rather have Jones playing everyday either in RF or at 1B. If Jones is at 1B, then play Tabata or Snider in RF. If Jones is in RF, then play Gabby at 1B.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:00 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
TheShark wrote:
Animal wrote:
This is very similar to Garrett Jones and his situation. They are constantly bringing in guys to take his position, yet he keeps out-producing all of them. He certainly is not perfect, but does okay...but fans constantly want to bash him.


Jones has always had a starting job since he came up in 09, even if that meant in a platoon role. So when they brought players in (McGehee, Gaby), they weren't brought in to replace him, they were to platoon so that Jones could keep bashing RHP, while his career OPS against LHP is .590. I'm sure that Jones himself would tell you that a platoon makes sense with him unless he wants to continue to hit LHP like a very bad utility infielder. Plus given that they let Jones consistently play two positions, he ends up getting way more playing time than his given platoon would warrant anyway. I don't agree that "fans constantly bash him" either, at least not in my experience. So I don't think the two are very comparable.


From what I've seen, Garrett Jones might be a platoon player BUT the "RH hitting" players he is suppose to share a platoon role with or have shared a platoon role with have not been as strong a player(s) or as productive a player(s) as Jones.

According to the current Pirate roster...IMO...I would rather have Jones playing everyday either in RF or at 1B. If Jones is at 1B, then play Tabata or Snider in RF. If Jones is in RF, then play Gabby at 1B.


The numbers would strongly disagree.

vs LHP
Jones .198/.237/.353

Tabata .254/.339/.373
Sanchez .289/.384/.477

Seems pretty clear that GFJ has no business being in the lineup vs. LHP.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:09 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
The numbers would strongly disagree.

vs LHP
Jones .198/.237/.353

Tabata .254/.339/.373
Sanchez .289/.384/.477

Seems pretty clear that GFJ has no business being in the lineup vs. LHP.


Barrys, all I'm saying is Jones has been more productive than Tabata and Sanchez (as a Pirate).

The numbers might be right and Jones might have a poor record against LHP, but I've not seen any Pirate player in the current lineup that should bump Garrett out of the starting lineup entirely right now.

I think our line up is stronger with Jones that without him. Tabata and Jones, or Gabby and Jones...IMO...is stronger than Tabata and Gabby no matter what the numbers say.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Tabata has been good this year.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Jones has been more productive overall, because he is so productive against righties. That is not justification to start him against lefties.

I would go with a straight platoon. Jones/Sanchez at first, Snider/Tabata in right. I would also go with a set lineup, one batting order against righties and another against lefties. Then I would leave it alone for several weeks, and only then would I make changes if something isn't working.

Hurdle doesn't think that way though. he likes to be constantly juggling things around.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:52 pm 
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RTJR wrote:
Tabata has been good this year.


I think you might be a bit blinded by his two-hit performance last game, those accounted for half of his hits on the season ... he's hitting .222. Granted he hasn't got a lot of playing time, so those numbers aren't all too significant. However given his spot on the depth chart right now, he needs to take a step forward soon if that playing time is going to increase.

Snider, on the other hand, has been good this year.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:09 pm 
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I'm not just looking at his hitting, which isn't bad given he's only had 18 ABs. His defense last year was putrid. It seemed like he was misplaying a ball at least twice a night. I can't recall anything like that so far this season. Plus, he looks to be in better shape.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:16 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
The numbers would strongly disagree.

vs LHP
Jones .198/.237/.353

Tabata .254/.339/.373
Sanchez .289/.384/.477

Seems pretty clear that GFJ has no business being in the lineup vs. LHP.


Barrys, all I'm saying is Jones has been more productive than Tabata and Sanchez (as a Pirate).

The numbers might be right and Jones might have a poor record against LHP, but I've not seen any Pirate player in the current lineup that should bump Garrett out of the starting lineup entirely right now.

I think our line up is stronger with Jones that without him. Tabata and Jones, or Gabby and Jones...IMO...is stronger than Tabata and Gabby no matter what the numbers say.


Gaby beat Jones in ops vs LHP by more than 200 points in 2012, that is during his time as a Pirate. If you want to ignore overwhelming evidence, it your prerogative but I doubt you'll convince many people.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:56 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Gaby beat Jones in ops vs LHP by more than 200 points in 2012, that is during his time as a Pirate. If you want to ignore overwhelming evidence, it your prerogative but I doubt you'll convince many people.


I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. From what I've seen, I'll take Jones in the line up everyday either at 1B or in RF until the Pirates can find another player equal to or better than his (Jones) production who hits from the right side and who can play either or both of those positions.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:43 pm 
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By all accounts Jones should produce more based on numbers because he'll get more chances in a platoon role. A lot more right handed pitchers than left handed. Even then sometimes pitchers deal well enough that it doesn't matter what the numbers or platoon rolls say.

I'm not on here to bash pirate players when they're not hitting, team as a whole, on certain nights. Sometimes you have to tip your cap to the guy on the mound.

Pedro will get it going.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:50 pm 
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It sounds like you are against platooning Jones. Which is fine you are entitled to your opinion. But Jones is not a young player we are trying to develop. He is nearing the down side of his career, and he has a long track record of not being able to hit lefties. There is no reason to expect that to change. He is the perfect platoon candidate.

For someone like Alvarez or Snider, for example, it makes more sense to make that argument, because they are younger and might eventually be successful against lefties.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:22 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
I've seen similar threads on other team's boards.

I'll start.

In his first PA last night, even though he grounded out, he made contact with the ball on each of his four swings of the at-bat. He didn't swing-and-miss once.

He has a hot wife, so he must be a nice guy.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:28 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
RTJR wrote:
Tabata has been good this year.


I think you might be a bit blinded by his two-hit performance last game, those accounted for half of his hits on the season ... he's hitting .222. Granted he hasn't got a lot of playing time, so those numbers aren't all too significant. However given his spot on the depth chart right now, he needs to take a step forward soon if that playing time is going to increase.

Snider, on the other hand, has been good this year.

Tabata has a lifetime OPS of .712 against lefties.

Sanchez has a lifetime OPS of .860 against lefties.

Jones has a lifetime OPS of .590 against lefties.

Jones has no business playing against left handed starters. Ever.

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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:39 pm 
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I'll say something nice when he starts playing better and living up to his hype.


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 Post subject: Re: The "Say Something Nice About Pedro Alvarez" Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Clevelandsux wrote:
I'll say something nice when he starts playing better and living up to his hype.


Considering that's more or less been the consensus opinion on him since he came up, it begs the question: what hype?

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