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 Post subject: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:32 am 
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he is 7/16(and two walks) in the last two series. Ave-.437 OBP-.562
So, what do you think-- Just hot or starting to live up to his abilities?? If he's real and Marte sure looks real, with Cutch going, we may really have something here.

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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:18 am 
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He might be living up to his abilities, but he won't live up to my expectations until the balls start flying out of the park. We don't need another punch and judy hitter.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:34 am 
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This guy could be a key player. He got one over the fence yesterday and has been making good contact. For now he just needs to hold down his end of the right field platoon.

I would love to see him nail down that position, so that going forward we only have to worry about shortstop and pitcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:55 am 
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I think he has going a good job in right field. If he continues to bat around .300 and plays good
defense, maybe the home runs will come. Maybe Jose and him as a platoon will be the answer.
I do like what I see in him.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:22 am 
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What sort of average and HR numbers do you guys think Snider should put up to stake claims to the everyday RF job? Would .270 with 20 homers do it? I think with Snider, his greatest enemy will be the injuries. If he can stay healthy I think he could be a nice player.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:46 am 
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I know the guy has minor league pedigree, but I don't see the stroke for 20 or more homers from this guy. I just don't. He has a flat swing that doesn't seem to create consistent loft.

I kinda like him, though, given that he's a lefty bat that creates fairly consistent contact. Unlike Pedro (and, to a lesser extent, Jones), you don't get the feeling he's sunk when the pitcher works him into a 2-strike count.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:02 am 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I know the guy has minor league pedigree, but I don't see the stroke for 20 or more homers from this guy. I just don't. He has a flat swing that doesn't seem to create consistent loft.

I kinda like him, though, given that he's a lefty bat that creates fairly consistent contact. Unlike Pedro (and, to a lesser extent, Jones), you don't get the feeling he's sunk when the pitcher works him into a 2-strike count.


Its not just minor league pedigree JC, he has 32 big league HR. He really should be a .260 15HR guy as a floor which would work in a platoon. He does have 3 doubles (2 and what should be a HR) in 26 plate appearances this year. Brandon Moss showed limited power for years then it all came together, coudl we get that lucky?

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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:08 am 
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Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
What sort of average and HR numbers do you guys think Snider should put up to stake claims to the everyday RF job? Would .270 with 20 homers do it? I think with Snider, his greatest enemy will be the injuries. If he can stay healthy I think he could be a nice player.


Yeah, 20-25 HRs in 500 ABs is what I think we need from him. He is a patient hitter who draws his share of walks, but I think he only had 7 extra base hits last year out of 32 hits.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:28 am 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I know the guy has minor league pedigree, but I don't see the stroke for 20 or more homers from this guy. I just don't. He has a flat swing that doesn't seem to create consistent loft.

I kinda like him, though, given that he's a lefty bat that creates fairly consistent contact. Unlike Pedro (and, to a lesser extent, Jones), you don't get the feeling he's sunk when the pitcher works him into a 2-strike count.


Its not just minor league pedigree JC, he has 32 big league HR. He really should be a .260 15HR guy as a floor which would work in a platoon. He does have 3 doubles (2 and what should be a HR) in 26 plate appearances this year. Brandon Moss showed limited power for years then it all came together, coudl we get that lucky?

I think if he gets regular playing time that .275 with 15-20 HR's and quite a few doubles would be a fair expectation. I'm with JC...as a fan there is something I like about this guy. He plays a pretty decent RF and goes all out. Hopefully his offense will keep progressing.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:40 pm 
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I'd argue that Snider's HR expectations should be seen as relative to HR expectations for the outfield as a whole. I don't have much time now so I went and looked at the HR totals for the guys listed by BR as the starting OFers in 2012 for the other teams in the division and their HR totals were:
Cincinnati: 74
Milwaukee: 70
St. Louis: 63
Chicago: 41.

So I'd say that the Pirates should aim for 65-70 HR from their outfielders. It's probably a bit early to expect 30 HR from Marte but I think that we can expect at least 30 from Cutch at this point. So let's say that we get 30 from Cutch and 20 from Marte, we'd need 15-20 from RF.

Now if Marte hits more than 20 I'd say that my need for power from RF drops into a more realistic range for Snider (heck, Barmes hit 8 last year). I'm not saying that we shouldn't be looking for more power from RF but that the expectation should be relative to the outfield as a whole, not necessarily on expectations for a RF.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:43 pm 
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I like the power potential. You can never have too many power hitters.

I go by OPS more than anything. If he can be at .800 or better while playing adequate defense, he is at least pulling his weight and proving that he should keep getting the playing time. Right now he is at .817 but I think he is heating up like the rest of the team.

If he progresses to the point where he can play against lefties that's a bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:46 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
I'd argue that Snider's HR expectations should be seen as relative to HR expectations for the outfield as a whole. I don't have much time now so I went and looked at the HR totals for the guys listed by BR as the starting OFers in 2012 for the other teams in the division and their HR totals were:
Cincinnati: 74
Milwaukee: 70
St. Louis: 63
Chicago: 41.

So I'd say that the Pirates should aim for 65-70 HR from their outfielders. It's probably a bit early to expect 30 HR from Marte but I think that we can expect at least 30 from Cutch at this point. So let's say that we get 30 from Cutch and 20 from Marte, we'd need 15-20 from RF.

Now if Marte hits more than 20 I'd say that my need for power from RF drops into a more realistic range for Snider (heck, Barmes hit 8 last year). I'm not saying that we shouldn't be looking for more power from RF but that the expectation should be relative to the outfield as a whole, not necessarily on expectations for a RF.


I disagree. Marte's performance does not affect my evaluation of Snider.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I know the guy has minor league pedigree, but I don't see the stroke for 20 or more homers from this guy. I just don't. He has a flat swing that doesn't seem to create consistent loft.

I kinda like him, though, given that he's a lefty bat that creates fairly consistent contact. Unlike Pedro (and, to a lesser extent, Jones), you don't get the feeling he's sunk when the pitcher works him into a 2-strike count.


Its not just minor league pedigree JC, he has 32 big league HR. He really should be a .260 15HR guy as a floor which would work in a platoon. He does have 3 doubles (2 and what should be a HR) in 26 plate appearances this year. Brandon Moss showed limited power for years then it all came together, coudl we get that lucky?


BD -- it was my understanding that the Pirates' coaches worked with Snider when he came over and he changed his swing a bit to create more contact. He hit those 32 big-league home runs before making that change. I'm evaluating Snider based on what I've seen from him as a Pirate. And I've seen a good, patient hitter with a nice line drive stroke, but one lacking the loft to hit 20 home runs per year in the majors.


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:53 pm 
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I like the platoon.

Actually, I like both of them. I think that Snider/Tabata in RF and Jones/Sanchez at 1b could work wonders for us. And with the platoon, we have two pretty good bats off the bench every day. Throw the backup catcher in there, plus Inge, who I think may surprise some, and we have a pretty good bench core, despite having McDonald there as strictly a defensive guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:54 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I know the guy has minor league pedigree, but I don't see the stroke for 20 or more homers from this guy. I just don't. He has a flat swing that doesn't seem to create consistent loft.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Carlos Beltran also have a flat swing?

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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Meanwhile, Brad Lincoln has yet to throw a pitch for Toronto in 2013. He has, however, given up 4 runs in 4 IP over 3 games in AAA-Buffalo.

Methinks we sold high.

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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:59 pm 
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Willton wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I know the guy has minor league pedigree, but I don't see the stroke for 20 or more homers from this guy. I just don't. He has a flat swing that doesn't seem to create consistent loft.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Carlos Beltran also have a flat swing?


From the right side, very much so. From the left side, he drops his left shoulder when hitting low balls and can golf them out like Garrett Jones.

(Beltran's on my fantasy baseball team, so I've seen him hit a lot.)


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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:11 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
I'm with JC...as a fan there is something I like about this guy.



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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Make no mistake: Snider can crush ... a Primanti sandwich.

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/travis-snider-eats-a-sandwich-on-twitter/

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 Post subject: Re: Snider
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:26 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Meanwhile, Brad Lincoln has yet to throw a pitch for Toronto in 2013. He has, however, given up 4 runs in 4 IP over 3 games in AAA-Buffalo.

Methinks we sold high.


I thought it was a win-win trade when it happened. Lincoln was fitting in nicely as a bullpen piece, but he was getting to the age where we had come to know what his max potential was, and one thing NH has proven to be wildly successful at is bringing in quality bullpen pieces from the FA market and elsewhere so he was largely replaceable. Snider was a perfect candidate for turning it around outside of Toronto, still relatively young, was ultimately given up on with the Blue Jays given he was once their top prospect, and he's career .910 OPS hitter in the minors. So far his play with the Pirates leaves me with mixed reactions, however I want him to get as much playing time as possible this year to truly see. I was pretty disappointed when he was benched in favor of Gaby Sanchez the first few games when they were facing RHP, given that Gaby is in a platoon for a reason, I wanted Snider getting those ABs.


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