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 Post subject: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:49 am 
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Ouch. He got SMOKED last night.

Blown save, loss, 3 hits, 2 walks, 2 homers, 5 runs, all earned.

Brandon Moss, on the other hand, went 3 for 4, 2 runs, 5 RBI's, a triple and a homer.

The Pirates lost 10 to 2.

What's my point? I have none. Just sharing :)

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:17 am 
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Hanrahan gave up an HR to Adam Jones in his first "save".

I watched the Brandon Moss HR yesterday. He's been on fire lately. What the f. There must be something in the puddles of industrial effluent water in Oakland.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:49 pm 
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Some of my Yankee fan friends were quite worried about having Hanrahan in the AL East because of his numbers from the past few years. I told them that I don't think he's going to do all that well this year because of his control issues and the higher level of competition.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:05 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Some of my Yankee fan friends were quite worried about having Hanrahan in the AL East because of his numbers from the past few years. I told them that I don't think he's going to do all that well this year because of his control issues and the higher level of competition.


I think its more of him being a flyball pitcher who has lost his best K pitch (slider), bad mix with those hitters parks.

Moss on the other hand (and Crisp too), man what is going on by the Bay with all these HR. Bash Brothers part deux.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:54 pm 
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Hanrahan gave up 3 hits (2 homers) and 2 walks and they all scored. In 2/3 of an inning. He yanked one into the ground for a wild pitch that I think allowed the tying run to score. I only saw the highlights.

That's what made me nervous last year and made me glad we got something for him. He wasn't just having control problems, he was totally losing it, throwing the ball nowhere near where it was supposed to be going.

I wish him well. He can be devastating when he is on.

Moss is just another guy that we missed on. I don't know if it's a failure to develop, failure to recognize talent, or something else going on. There are so many guys who suck with us then go on to perform well.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:50 pm 
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This got me curious about other former Pirates on Major League rosters. I was simply amazed at how few of them there are. There was a time when you could look at every team and there would be at least one former Bucco.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:15 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
This got me curious about other former Pirates on Major League rosters. I was simply amazed at how few of them there are. There was a time when you could look at every team and there would be at least one former Bucco.


Some time next week, I will post my "visit with old friends"

I think Moss needed a better look here. He was successful at every level of the minors. I thought all he needed was a chance. I worry we are going to give up on a guy like Hague and he is going to go on to success.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Animal wrote:
I think Moss needed a better look here. He was successful at every level of the minors. I thought all he needed was a chance.


Whether the Pirates made a wrong decision on Moss is debatable, but can we please retire the line that because a player was awful with the Pirates and found success with another team years down the road that the Pirates must have "not given him a chance?" when that wasn't the case? I remember you saying similar things about Jeff Clement last year went he wasn't getting called up, that they never gave him a chance despite the fact that they gave him a starting job out of spring training for a position he hadn't even played before.

Through 628 PAs with the Pirates, Brandon Moss was essentially Clint Barmes, only while playing a much more demanding offensive position. The most staggering thing, outside of not hitting well by any measure, was the lack of power, which was basically non-existent ... his line through parts of three seasons: .228/.295/.373. So he was given chances and played his way out of them, and at the time he was cut he had basically backpedaled behind guys like Jones and Presley on the depth chart.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:22 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
Animal wrote:
I think Moss needed a better look here. He was successful at every level of the minors. I thought all he needed was a chance.


Whether the Pirates made a wrong decision on Moss is debatable, but can we please retire the line that because a player was awful with the Pirates and found success with another team years down the road that the Pirates must have "not given him a chance?" when that wasn't the case? I remember you saying similar things about Jeff Clement last year went he wasn't getting called up, that they never gave him a chance despite the fact that they gave him a starting job out of spring training for a position he hadn't even played before.

Through 628 PAs with the Pirates, Brandon Moss was essentially Clint Barmes, only while playing a much more demanding offensive position. The most staggering thing, outside of not hitting well by any measure, was the lack of power, which was basically non-existent ... his line through parts of three seasons: .228/.295/.373. So he was given chances and played his way out of them, and at the time he was cut he had basically backpedaled behind guys like Jones and Presley on the depth chart.


I guess we just differ on the definition of getting a chance. Yeah...he got a decent amount of playing time in 2009 and didn't do much...but everything he did in 2010 screamed of giving him another LEGITIMATE Shot. He went down to Indy and worked hard, hitting 22 HR and 96 RBI in 136 games with an OPS of .800. What did that earn him?? A lousy 26 at bats with the Bucs....while Lastings Milledge was stinking up RF. To me, not giving guys like this a better shot, call it a reward for their hard work at AAA is a mistake.

In addition, to be given a fair shot, these guys need some consistent playing time, not being jerked up and down from AAA to majors and starting a day here, a day there.

And for what he did last year, overcoming injuries and working hard and producing at AAA, Clement deserved more of a chance last year than 22 at bats.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:03 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
Hanrahan gave up 3 hits (2 homers) and 2 walks and they all scored. In 2/3 of an inning. He yanked one into the ground for a wild pitch that I think allowed the tying run to score. I only saw the highlights.

That's what made me nervous last year and made me glad we got something for him. He wasn't just having control problems, he was totally losing it, throwing the ball nowhere near where it was supposed to be going.

I wish him well. He can be devastating when he is on.

Moss is just another guy that we missed on. I don't know if it's a failure to develop, failure to recognize talent, or something else going on. There are so many guys who suck with us then go on to perform well.

Would you like a list of all of the teams who missed on Moss?
Boston traded him away.
The Pirates cut him.
The Phillies signed him, then cut him.
Every other team in the major leagues besides Oakland, any of whom could have signed him after Pittsburgh and Philadelphia let him go.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:05 pm 
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Animal wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
This got me curious about other former Pirates on Major League rosters. I was simply amazed at how few of them there are. There was a time when you could look at every team and there would be at least one former Bucco.


Some time next week, I will post my "visit with old friends"

I think Moss needed a better look here. He was successful at every level of the minors. I thought all he needed was a chance. I worry we are going to give up on a guy like Hague and he is going to go on to success.

The Pirates gave him 628 plate appearances. He took advantage of that by posting a .677 OPS for them. In other words, he got a full season worth of chances and pissed them away by hitting like a shortstop.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:17 pm 
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Animal wrote:
TheShark wrote:
Animal wrote:
I think Moss needed a better look here. He was successful at every level of the minors. I thought all he needed was a chance.


Whether the Pirates made a wrong decision on Moss is debatable, but can we please retire the line that because a player was awful with the Pirates and found success with another team years down the road that the Pirates must have "not given him a chance?" when that wasn't the case? I remember you saying similar things about Jeff Clement last year went he wasn't getting called up, that they never gave him a chance despite the fact that they gave him a starting job out of spring training for a position he hadn't even played before.

Through 628 PAs with the Pirates, Brandon Moss was essentially Clint Barmes, only while playing a much more demanding offensive position. The most staggering thing, outside of not hitting well by any measure, was the lack of power, which was basically non-existent ... his line through parts of three seasons: .228/.295/.373. So he was given chances and played his way out of them, and at the time he was cut he had basically backpedaled behind guys like Jones and Presley on the depth chart.


I guess we just differ on the definition of getting a chance. Yeah...he got a decent amount of playing time in 2009 and didn't do much...but everything he did in 2010 screamed of giving him another LEGITIMATE Shot. He went down to Indy and worked hard, hitting 22 HR and 96 RBI in 136 games with an OPS of .800. What did that earn him?? A lousy 26 at bats with the Bucs....while Lastings Milledge was stinking up RF. To me, not giving guys like this a better shot, call it a reward for their hard work at AAA is a mistake.

In addition, to be given a fair shot, these guys need some consistent playing time, not being jerked up and down from AAA to majors and starting a day here, a day there.

And for what he did last year, overcoming injuries and working hard and producing at AAA, Clement deserved more of a chance last year than 22 at bats.

The Pirates gave Moss the starting job in right field in 2009. He spent no time in the minors in 2009. He played 133 major league games and 424 plate appearances, in which he put up an OPS of .712. How many more years were they supposed to give him to get his crap together?

Oh, by the way, an OPS of .800 in AAA translates to something in the low seven hundreds in the majors. In other words, he showed nothing at Indy to indicate that he had improved.

As for "Lastings Millege stinking up RF", well, Millege got a total of 615 plate appearances with the Pirates, less than they gave to Moss, and his OPS here was .718, 51 points higher than Moss produced. You should be complaining about how the Pirates screwed Millege. It would make more sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan and Moss
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:10 am 
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Yeah sorry, I don't buy the "we missed the boat" argument on Moss. He showed NOTHING when he was here. They recognized that the guy had good power, but he did nothing with it. It wasn't just the overall numbers he put up (or lack thereof), his actual at bats were terrible. He rarely hit the ball out of the infield. He sucked as a starter and he sucked as a bench player. He got his chance.

Just because he had a good year in Oakland last year, and he's starting this year hot, doesn't mean the Pirates screwed up. Nobody saw anything in this guy. Just credit the Oakland organization, it's not like it's the first time they scooped up a guy nobody wanted and got some really good short term production out of him. It doesn't mean he's going to be the second coming of Jose Bautista, he'll probably vanish all together in a season or two, if he even keeps it up this year.


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