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 Post subject: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Elvis Andrus. He is apparently available, so what do you think would be an offer that could get andrus?

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:51 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Elvis Andrus. He is apparently available, so what do you think would be an offer that could get andrus?


4 WAR SS 2 years form free agency, not near enough to get him. I highly doubt he's available, this is a media creation because St. Louis needs a SS and has a lot of SP prospects that TEX needs. There is no reason why Texas, who wants to win now, would move him for prospects.

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:14 am 
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Yeah, definitely don't buy it. Even if he you have a dynamite SS prospect coming up, you're winning right now so it makes no sense to move a valuable part of that for prospects. I could see if it was the deadline and Andrus was underperforming while Profar was knocking at the door, move him then for a nice package, but right now it makes no sense.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:24 am 
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The reason the Rangers would be willing to deal Andrus is because they have a better SS in the minors. Profar does not have a spot to play right now with Andrus at SS, Kinsler at 2B, and Beltre at 3B.

The Rangers justifiably want to find a way to put Profar in their infield, and get a significant return in the process, particularly pitching and a C.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:37 am 
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Can't say anyone in the minors is "better" than a guy who was one of the best at his position last year. It would be an amazing leap for a minor league player to come up and outperform someone who already played very well at the position, and still hasn't even hit their prime themselves. I can't see any GM thinking in the way of your scenario.

If they were moving anyone, wouldn't it be Kinsler or Beltre? But then again they still have Olt coming up to play one of the corner IF positions. Rangers are in like the greatest position ever right now. They have talent bursting everywhere in their IF.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
The reason the Rangers would be willing to deal Andrus is because they have a better SS in the minors. Profar does not have a spot to play right now with Andrus at SS, Kinsler at 2B, and Beltre at 3B.

The Rangers justifiably want to find a way to put Profar in their infield, and get a significant return in the process, particularly pitching and a C.


Profar is a great, great prospect but he is not as good defensively as Andrus and you never know how long it will take for his bat to click. Beyond that, they have a so-so 1B, a DH that is unlikely to play more than 80 games, a oft injured RF, and an over achiever in LF. There is no reason not to just move Kinsler when Profar is ready.

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:10 pm 
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Leway512 wrote:
Can't say anyone in the minors is "better" than a guy who was one of the best at his position last year. It would be an amazing leap for a minor league player to come up and outperform someone who already played very well at the position, and still hasn't even hit their prime themselves. I can't see any GM thinking in the way of your scenario.

Profar has a better eye at the plate, significantly more power, and is a very good base runner. His arm is quite good, and his defense is rated highly. He would not be a defensive downgrade from Andrus. He would be an offensive upgrade over Andrus, who has 8 HR's over the past 3 seasons combined and has a career OPS of .695 thus far.

Look, Andrus is not a bad SS. He has a decent eye at the plate (not as good as Profar's), good defense, good base running, but Profar is special.

http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/ ... profar-ss/

Leway512 wrote:
If they were moving anyone, wouldn't it be Kinsler or Beltre?

Those players do not have the trade value of Andrus, who plays a premium defensive position and is cheaper for the next two years.

Further, Andrus is never going to hit enough to play a corner IF position. The Kinsler situation is the greater question, but he was recently signed to an extension through 2017, indicating that the Rangers want to keep him. Otherwise, they would have let him play out his contract this year and simply plugged in Profar.

Finally, your comment that a guy in the minors cannot be rated more highly than a player in the major leagues is not how MLB general managers operate, particularly where the player in question (Profar) is the most highly-rated player IN ALL OF BASEBALL RIGHT NOW.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2013/

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/pr ... 14739.html

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... ospects-2/

If your perspective were one shared by general managers, then Clint Barmes would have greater trade value than Profar, no?


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Profar is a great, great prospect but he is not as good defensively as Andrus.

The scouting reports rate Profar's arm a 60, and his defensive abilities at 70.

He is damn good.

There is a reason why he is the best prospect in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:44 pm 
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There's a reason why Delmon Young was the best prospect in the game once, too. Same with Domonic Brown, I'd imagine.

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:51 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
There's a reason why Delmon Young was the best prospect in the game once, too. Same with Domonic Brown, I'd imagine.

Delmon Young had issues unrelated to his skill at hitting a ball. From what I understand, Profar is 180 degrees opposite of D. Young in that regard.

Also, D. Brown was a very good prospect, top-10 per some, but he was not a SS who drew walks, did not fan, hit for power, had a plus arm, solid range, and ran very well ... in other words, D. Brown was (and still is in some respects) a good prospect.

That is not comparable to the best prospect in the game.

And look, everybody has an opinion on the value of minor league players, but in MLB, those who get paid to make these decisions value Profar more highly than Andrus - including the Rangers' GM.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Well of course he'd be valued more highly, I don't think that is the question here. I'd bet Travis Snider was once valued more highly than the dudes he never ended up beating out.

All I'm saying is, there's absolutely no way that you can say with certainty that Profar is a better ML SS than Andrus.

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:29 pm 
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Splitting hairs, aren't we? Both players are better than anything we've had a SS for quite a while, probably including Jack. Maybe Jordy Mercer can make it a mute point. We really just need a SS that can lead off.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Since Andrus would probably cost the Bucs Cole/Taillon... not much.

Andrus is a PERFECT fit for this team and all, but it's [probably] not worth the price to obtain him when the team is thisclose to contending.

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:17 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Profar is a great, great prospect but he is not as good defensively as Andrus.

The scouting reports rate Profar's arm a 60, and his defensive abilities at 70.

He is damn good.

There is a reason why he is the best prospect in the game.


You are missing the point Bucfan, the Rangers have worse players at other positions. The don't need to trade Andrus to play Profar. Its not one or teh other, it can be both very easily.

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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:29 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
Maybe Jordy Mercer can make it a mute point.


All the LOL's...


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:46 am 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
All I'm saying is, there's absolutely no way that you can say with certainty that Profar is a better ML SS than Andrus.

Oh, okay.

I guess I better become a Yankees fan since proven MLB player always better than minor league prospect.

Always.

No matter that the prospect hits for average, walks, does not K, hits for power, runs, steals bases and plays SS.

So what, right?

Every GM on the planet believes that Profar >> Andrus.


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 Post subject: Re: What would you give up for...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:57 am 
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What aren't you grasping? He's the number 1 prospect in baseball....okay. Pretty sure "Every GM on the planet" isn't going to replace an already proven and good MLB SS with a prospect, when they're in World Series mode right now. GREAT prospects, a lot of which were top prospects in baseball, that "every GM on the planet" would kill to have, did not pan out anywhere near as expected. You don't just move a guy who is GOOD, when you are WINNING, because someone in your system is having a great minor league career.

How you get "Clint Barmes must be a better option than Profar" from what I said is beyond me. Elvis Andrus is not Clint Barmes. Elvis Andrus has played well for a World Series quality team.


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