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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:39 am 
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Wow. So many people here obsessed with DK. Can't have a single thread without bringing up DK's opinion on it. Funny.

By the way, here's his take on the Bucs re-signing Karstens:

http://blog.triblive.com/dejan-kovacevi ... al-gamble/

>> Here’s one of those forecasts that knocks you right out of the Nostradamus Trophy running. [Links to blog post in which he said Karstens was "out of here."]

Oof!

How rotten does that look after this news yesterday?

Well, rather than reopen old wounds from the time of the Pirates’ release of Jeff Karstens, I’ll just say it’s everyone’s right to change their views as situations change. It can be a healthy thing, too. Stubbornness for the sake of stubbornness rarely serves anyone.

Bottom line is a win-win: Neal Huntington gets a $2.5 million pitcher who would have cost $3.8 million through arbitration, and Karstens gets a chance to stay with a group of teammates he loves being around.

The lone concern, obviously, is that Karstens’ 2012 numbers look markedly better than his 2013 pay. And that’s a sign that all those hints the Pirates’ management was dropping at PirateFest about Karstens’ health — for whatever reason and to whatever effect — might come with some merit.

If Karstens is fine, then he’s very much a welcome-back addition to the rotation. Some of you have long known how I feel about his ability: The guy can pitch.


Oh, DK admitted he was wrong about his forecast? And he owned up to it? That already makes him more of a stand-up guy than about 75% of the posters on this board...


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:01 pm 
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He can go the first half of the season and the combo of Morton, Cole or Taillon can finish. 4 headed monster....sounds like a plan.. 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:27 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I'm surprised he re-signed. I feel he could have done better than 1 year and $2.5 million.

But it's a very good move by NH and the Pirates. They retained Karstens and saved about $1.3 million compared to what they would have paid him through arbitration. Well done.


Its likely a convergence of circumstances. I'm not convinced that it was Huntington's "master plan" to re-acquire/retain Karstens. Although I'm certain that the Bucs kept the lines of communication open with Karsten's agent, my feeling is that the signing was more of a result of Liriano's unexpected injury. The ultimate signing amount tells me that Huntington and Crew likely had a pretty good feel for Karsten's potential free agent value and that Karstens and/or his agent likely overestimated Karstens' value. Hopefully, he's injury free and can be a productive pitcher. Time will tell.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:37 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Wow. So many people here obsessed with DK. Can't have a single thread without bringing up DK's opinion on it. Funny.


Reap what you sow. Make your living by being critical of others, you can only expect that people will be critical of you when you are wrong. The "volume" of responses is, IMO, directly proportional to the "volume" and nature of the criticism.

For what its worth, adding a bit more humility to one's approach is something that most people would benefit from - and I'm not excluding myself from this observation.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
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Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:08 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Oh, DK admitted he was wrong about his forecast? And he owned up to it? That already makes him more of a stand-up guy than about 75% of the posters on this board...

Well, that may be true, but has yet to be tested in my case, since I have never been wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:58 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Oh, DK admitted he was wrong about his forecast? And he owned up to it? That already makes him more of a stand-up guy than about 75% of the posters on this board...

Well, that may be true, but has yet to be tested in my case, since I have never been wrong.


Truer words have never been written. That's why I refer to you offline as "The Great and Infallible Bucfan."


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:01 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
I'm surprised he re-signed. I feel he could have done better than 1 year and $2.5 million.

But it's a very good move by NH and the Pirates. They retained Karstens and saved about $1.3 million compared to what they would have paid him through arbitration. Well done.


Its likely a convergence of circumstances. I'm not convinced that it was Huntington's "master plan" to re-acquire/retain Karstens. Although I'm certain that the Bucs kept the lines of communication open with Karsten's agent, my feeling is that the signing was more of a result of Liriano's unexpected injury. The ultimate signing amount tells me that Huntington and Crew likely had a pretty good feel for Karsten's potential free agent value and that Karstens and/or his agent likely overestimated Karstens' value. Hopefully, he's injury free and can be a productive pitcher. Time will tell.


Oh, I think it was more luck than plan, but I give NH credit for the result.

I really hope this doesn't mean the Bucs have cut off contact with Liriano/Marcum. The team would be in very good shape if they brought in one of those two. As much as I love Karstens, you can really only count on him for about 120 innings.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:15 pm 
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Liriano's injury factored in but so did the lack of interest the market showed in Karstens. You don't know how something like that is going to play out until it plays out.

As BarryS noted, who would ever guess that Correia would get 2 years 13 mil? He's been somewhat more durable than Karstens over the last 2 years, but Karstens has been more effective. Plus he's several years younger.

This counts as a win for NH but as others have noted we still need one more starter. You can never have too many.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:29 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Wow. So many people here obsessed with DK. Can't have a single thread without bringing up DK's opinion on it. Funny.

Says the guy who unearthed a 2-year old post to pick a fight regarding Neal Huntington and Walt Jocketty.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:44 pm 
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Willton wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Wow. So many people here obsessed with DK. Can't have a single thread without bringing up DK's opinion on it. Funny.

Says the guy who unearthed a 2-year old post to pick a fight regarding Neal Huntington and Walt Jocketty.


I brought that one out of retirement to demonstrate what posters said about the job Neal Huntington was doing in 2010 and how much longer he should get to turn the Pirates around. It includes stances taken by multiple posters, not just one, and doesn't involve Kovacevic.

Also, it included some entertaining banter. I really enjoyed your "dark ages" comment about Jocketty. Good times.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:18 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Can't really grasp how he had so much less interest than Correia, but then again there is only one front office like the Twins. Glad he's back, we have cut him before and he fought back to claim a SP job. He's great insurance for Locke/KMac. I think we still need one of Marcum/Liriano.


What a great, novel-esque post.

Starts as a comedy, shifts to facts and with a foreboding, but strong and opinionated conclusion.

I would 'thank' this post if I could. Made my day.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:30 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Can't really grasp how he had so much less interest than Correia, but then again there is only one front office like the Twins. Glad he's back, we have cut him before and he fought back to claim a SP job. He's great insurance for Locke/KMac. I think we still need one of Marcum/Liriano.


What a great, novel-esque post.

Starts as a comedy, shifts to facts and with a foreboding, but strong and opinionated conclusion.

I would 'thank' this post if I could. Made my day.


Seconded. Dopers brought his "A game" with that post.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:20 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Can't really grasp how he had so much less interest than Correia, but then again there is only one front office like the Twins. Glad he's back, we have cut him before and he fought back to claim a SP job. He's great insurance for Locke/KMac. I think we still need one of Marcum/Liriano.


What a great, novel-esque post.

Starts as a comedy, shifts to facts and with a foreboding, but strong and opinionated conclusion.

I would 'thank' this post if I could. Made my day.

Yep, this board really needs reputation functionality.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:57 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Cheap Nuttings :roll:

How about you break out the sarcastic cheap nutting post after he signs Liriano or someone else we need. As of now he saved on Hanrahan's salary. The genius GM he employs got fortunate to find Karstens still hanging around and saved 1.3 mill. So there should be some dusty cash left in his pocket for at least one more addition.

More seriously, I genuinely hope the deal with Liriano gets done. It is well worth the risk in hoping he finds his old self. I still think this team/pitching staff is in a bit of trouble without at least one more decent starter. I think the offense could be markedly better, and will have to be without more pitching.


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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:01 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:14 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:

Give Dejan some credit, he came right out today and admitted that he blew that call.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:15 pm 
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Willton wrote:
bucco boy wrote:

Dejan wrote:
Projections were that he’d make $3.8 million through salary arbitration.

And trust me, this won’t be one of those where the pitcher agrees to come back at a lower rate. He’s out of here.

Well, I guess I know who to trust from now on.

A wise man once wrote that anything that follows the words "trust me" is almost certain to be untrue.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:18 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I'm surprised he re-signed. I feel he could have done better than 1 year and $2.5 million.

But it's a very good move by NH and the Pirates. They retained Karstens and saved about $1.3 million compared to what they would have paid him through arbitration. Well done.

I don't. I thought he was headed for a minor league deal with a spring training invite, though I think he's really worth much more than that. Only one team showed any interest (the Rockies), and apparently it wasn't a whole ton of interest.

Karstens is just one of those guys who scouts can't respect, I guess. He isn't big and he doesn't throw hard. All he does is get guys out.

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:09 pm 
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val wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Can't really grasp how he had so much less interest than Correia, but then again there is only one front office like the Twins. Glad he's back, we have cut him before and he fought back to claim a SP job. He's great insurance for Locke/KMac. I think we still need one of Marcum/Liriano.


What a great, novel-esque post.

Starts as a comedy, shifts to facts and with a foreboding, but strong and opinionated conclusion.

I would 'thank' this post if I could. Made my day.

Yep, this board really needs reputation functionality.


If you know anyone who can put it in for us, let us know. We are kind of stuck with what we have because a guy did us a favor to set us up. But I would love to upgrade if phpbb allows it.

BB

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 Post subject: Re: Karstens to re-sign
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:56 am 
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bucco boy wrote:
If you know anyone who can put it in for us, let us know. We are kind of stuck with what we have because a guy did us a favor to set us up. But I would love to upgrade if phpbb allows it.

BB

I only have experience with vBulletin. But I'll ask around to see if I know anyone who knows phpbb, which I'd never seen before I came here....


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