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 Post subject: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:26 pm 
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ESPN Boston's Gordon Edes reported earlier that the Red Sox were close to acquiring to Hanrahan but that there was still "work to be done."

The baseball pundits chipped in on Twitter, with Jon Heyman saying it will likely be a trade involving multiple players.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Apparently, Iglesias (the great-field, no-hit SS) is NOT one of the players likely to be dealt by the Sawx.

Franklin Morales is an "ehh" lefty reliever whose name has been bandied about. Not really excited at his acquisition. He was shut down in late August with shoulder problems. Flyball pitcher who gave up a ton of HR's in 2012 (11 in 76 IP).

Moving to PNC obviously helps him a ton, but still ...


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Not that Iglesias is a world beater, but why trade Hammer for multiple 'spare' parts instead of a young player in a position of need?

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:46 pm 
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Maybe by "multiple players", the bucs are adding something to the deal to get doubront.

Maybe??


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:50 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Maybe by "multiple players", the bucs are adding something to the deal to get doubront.

Maybe??

Sox don't seem interested in dealing Doubront, and I can't blame them. He is 25 years old, L-hander, who deals at 93-95 mph, and is a starter, not a LOOGY. I think he has four more years of "control" available.

A player like that has a lot of value, so it would take a ton to get him in trade. Not sure what the Pirates would be willing to deal that could get Doubront him in return.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:55 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
BBF wrote:
Maybe by "multiple players", the bucs are adding something to the deal to get doubront.

Maybe??

Sox don't seem interested in dealing Doubront, and I can't blame them. He is 25 years old, L-hander, who deals at 93-95 mph, and is a starter, not a LOOGY. I think he has four more years of "control" available.

A player like that has a lot of value, so it would take a ton to get him in trade. Not sure what the Pirates would be willing to deal that could get Doubront him in return.



we do have an extra OF any of them maybe jones? plus hanrahan?


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:54 pm 
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jim bowden reporting that the red sox wont give up any top prospects for hammer, also jerry sands is a name that is involved( which does not make sense to me)


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:09 pm 
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Per Bowden, the deal is basically done and Hanrahan is going to the Sox in return for Sands and somebody else.

Sands is not a high-ceiling prospect. He is not that much of a prospect at this point. He posted big numbers in Albuquerque, as did every other hitter who ever played for that team due to the parks, conditions (altitude in PCL).

Not a believer that Sands is worthy return.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:18 pm 
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This trade won't be well accepted by most if it goes down, but I will be quick to state that Hanrahan was TERRIFYING last year, and it wasn't just the second half, either.

I love the guy, but it's time to give the ball to Grilli.

There will be a lot of second guessing on this one. Maybe even by me. I'm not at all convinced he'll be worth more in July than now, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Pimental is also in the deal. Not sure if hammer is all we're giving up though.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:38 pm 
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The main issue I see with Sands is where is he supposed to fit, exactly? I initially expected Jones to be traded after the Clint Robinson acquisition, and I suppose that could still happen, but as it stands, Sands just joins that overcrowded group of questionable corner OFers with Tabata/Presley/Snider/etc.

For some humor and/or insight, Jon Heyman compared Jerry Sands to Matt Holliday -
Quote:
Jerry Sands is a terrific athlete w/power. High celing. Holliday type. Will be good get for #pirates if deal is finalized


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:52 pm 
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This is a horrendous deal by the Pirates. Why would anyone trade a proven closer for non prospects...
I am so God da@@ed tired of this organization picking up players that have "upside"...


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:58 pm 
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Shark - you hit the nail on the head.

Sands is another in a seemingly endless collection of corner OF/1B players that Huntington seems to be collecting. Gaby Sanchez, Clint Robinson, Travis Snyder, and on and on.

I don't like the deal. Just doesn't make sense. What does Sands add to the team they did not already have?

Huntington's tenure depends on what Sands and Liriano produce next year, IMO. And I just do not think that Sands produces enough to justify the move.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:00 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
The main issue I see with Sands is... as it stands, Sands just joins that overcrowded group of questionable corner OFers with Tabata/Presley/Snider/etc.


House of Poe wrote:
This is a horrendous deal by the Pirates. Why would anyone trade a proven closer for non prospects...


+1 on both accounts.

At least Iglesias would have been a young fill at a position where the Pirates will be filling with Barmes stop-gap typs until Hanson is ready (IF he makes it to the Show as a SS). And Porcello, well... pipe dream maybe, but still a sting to get stuck with Sands and other filler.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:25 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
TheShark wrote:
The main issue I see with Sands is... as it stands, Sands just joins that overcrowded group of questionable corner OFers with Tabata/Presley/Snider/etc.


House of Poe wrote:
This is a horrendous deal by the Pirates. Why would anyone trade a proven closer for non prospects...


+1 on both accounts.

At least Iglesias would have been a young fill at a position where the Pirates will be filling with Barmes stop-gap typs until Hanson is ready (IF he makes it to the Show as a SS). And Porcello, well... pipe dream maybe, but still a sting to get stuck with Sands and other filler.


Seriously its a 6 player deal, lets wait and see who is involved before judging.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:25 pm 
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TheShark wrote:
The main issue I see with Sands is where is he supposed to fit, exactly? I initially expected Jones to be traded after the Clint Robinson acquisition, and I suppose that could still happen, but as it stands, Sands just joins that overcrowded group of questionable corner OFers with Tabata/Presley/Snider/etc.

For some humor and/or insight, Jon Heyman compared Jerry Sands to Matt Holliday -
Quote:
Jerry Sands is a terrific athlete w/power. High celing. Holliday type. Will be good get for #pirates if deal is finalized


Could be that GFJ is involved. Supposedly its 2 Pirates for 4 guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:27 pm 
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Hammer's horrendous control last year (5.4 BB/9. And he was missing the plate by feet at times) likely cost the Bucs in any deal. It was clear that we weren't going to get a top guy for Hammer.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Seriously its a 6 player deal, lets wait and see who is involved before judging...

Could be that GFJ is involved. Supposedly its 2 Pirates for 4 guys.


Based on initial rumblings, it would take a sizeable return to change my opinion; especially if Jones was involved.

Why trade a more 'sure thing' in Jones for another long-shot lotto ticket in Sands?

Not saying this isn't or will not be a good deal, just saying that it doesn't appear to be by the sounds of it.

I do hope that I am wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:43 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
Seriously its a 6 player deal, lets wait and see who is involved before judging...

Could be that GFJ is involved. Supposedly its 2 Pirates for 4 guys.


Based on initial rumblings, it would take a sizeable return to change my opinion; especially if Jones was involved.

Why trade a more 'sure thing' in Jones for another long-shot lotto ticket in Sands?

Not saying this isn't or will not be a good deal, just saying that it doesn't appear to be by the sounds of it.

I do hope that I am wrong.


Yeah looks like quantity for one year of Joel. I like Jerry Sands somewhat, but his MiLB numbers are certainly PCL adjusted. Pimentel was higher regarded prior to 2011 but is still young. This from a Sox site -

Scouting Report: Strong pitcher's frame that he has been growing into over the course of the last couple of seasons. Four-seam fastball sits 92-94 mph with late finish when in the lower tier of the strike zone. Tops out at 95 mph when working as a starter and can sit in the upper reaches of his velocity in short bursts. Fringe-average fastball command. Struggles repeating arm slot and can be stiff when landing on his front foot. Ideal release point is a high 3/4s, but wavers lower at times from pitch-to-pitch. Needs work smoothing out delivery to enhance command. 78-82 mph changeup grades as plus presently. Ability to consistently miss bats with the offering. Shows late fade out of strike zone. Generates consistent arm-speed to his fastball. Lack of fastball command hurts pitch against advanced hitters due to working behind in too many counts. Scrapped curveball in the middle of 2011 season in favor of a slider. Works 82-89 mph with varying rotation and depth. Breaks sharply off the table at 86-89 mph and shows tight late break like a power slider or cutter. Pitch is slurvy at 82-84 mph. and tends to spin. Shows command and feel for the offering. Plus potential. Can be a swing-and-miss pitch if he can throw in upper reaches consistently. Learning how to pitch. Took a step backwards in 2011. Excellent overall stuff, but struggles with the consistency of his mechanics from outing-to-outing. Ceiling of fourth starter/fifth or late inning reliever at the major league level.

I'd like to see two more prospects with similar upside.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanrahan reportedly going to Red Sox
PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
I'd like to see two more prospects with similar upside.


Perhaps, but are targeting players with 'upside' what the Bucs should be doing right now?

Last year and certainly two years ago that made sense. For 2013, coming off of a solid and suprising 2012, what does 'upside' do for the big league squad?

As others have said, there are already enough guys on the roster with that 'upside' like Liriano, Morton, Presley, Robinson, Sanchez, Snider, Tabata...

If the Pirates want to get better and/or make a go of things in 2013, 'upside' needs to be less of a target as opposed to 'impact'.

Liriano and Martin made sense to add for potential and/or immediate 'impact', but, depending on what other player is involved with Hammer, trading too much for 'upside' is a risky proposition which the Bucs can ill afford if competing for 2013/14 is the goal.

I'd rather that the other two players be less 'upside' and more 'impact' or that instead of four 'upside' guys it was one or two 'impact'.

We'll see, I guess.

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