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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:06 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Willton wrote:
Never said that you weren't. I just contested your assertion that "I gave unqualified praise for the A.J. Burnett acquisition." And, as you can see from your own writing, your view of the Burnett acquisition was more qualified than it was praise. In fact, "qualified" is an understatement; you flatly did not like it.


I did give unqualified praise for it -- mid-season. I was wrong in my initial assessment. I never said "I gave unqualified praise for the A.J. Burnett acquisition right when it happened."

Ah, I see. You were willing to give unqualified praise for the Burnett trade when it was impossible to credibly do otherwise (i.e., after he had proven that he was on pace to do that which you had previously stated you would be shocked to see). I guess we should just forget about how much you panned the trade in February (i.e., an instance that could be characterized as being "reflexively anti-Huntington").

Given your contrary positions, perhaps you should be a bit more specific about the timeline when you say "I gave unqualified praise for the A.J. Burnett acquisition." Otherwise, I suggest you not throw stones at No. 9 for being "reflexively pro-Huntington".

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Ah, I see. You were willing to give unqualified praise for the Burnett trade when it was impossible to credibly do otherwise (i.e., after he had proven that he was on pace to do that which you had previously stated you would be shocked to see). I guess we should just forget about how much you panned the trade in February (i.e., an instance that could be characterized as being "reflexively anti-Huntington").

Given your contrary positions, perhaps you should be a bit more specific about the timeline when you say "I gave unqualified praise for the A.J. Burnett acquisition." Otherwise, I suggest you not throw stones at No. 9 for being "reflexively pro-Huntington".


If I was reflexively anti-Huntington, I wouldn't have supported the Wandy trade when it happened. It was mildly controversial, and several posters expressed criticism of the trade, yet I defended Huntington's move.

If I'm reflexively anti-Huntington, why did I do that?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:06 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Willton wrote:
Ah, I see. You were willing to give unqualified praise for the Burnett trade when it was impossible to credibly do otherwise (i.e., after he had proven that he was on pace to do that which you had previously stated you would be shocked to see). I guess we should just forget about how much you panned the trade in February (i.e., an instance that could be characterized as being "reflexively anti-Huntington").

Given your contrary positions, perhaps you should be a bit more specific about the timeline when you say "I gave unqualified praise for the A.J. Burnett acquisition." Otherwise, I suggest you not throw stones at No. 9 for being "reflexively pro-Huntington".


If I was reflexively anti-Huntington, I wouldn't have supported the Wandy trade when it happened. It was mildly controversial, and several posters expressed criticism of the trade, yet I defended Huntington's move.

If I'm reflexively anti-Huntington, why did I do that?

Look, alright, you're not absolutely reflexively anti-Huntington. But you rarely have a good thing to say about Huntington's moves, and when there is uncertainty regarding whether the outcome of one will be positive or negative, you regularly side with the negative. In fact, other than the Wandy trade, I'm not aware of you ever praising NH for a move he made until the outcome has become certain. Sure, you can claim that you're being objective, but when you develop a regular pattern of negative commentary, it's easy to characterize you as being "in the tank" against Huntington, much like many of us think you are "in the tank" with Kovacevic.

My only comment was to note that if you are going to paint No. 9 as being "reflexively pro-Huntington" (which I think is unwarranted), then perhaps you should check yourself on that front. No. 9 is no more reflexive in his comments regarding NH than you are.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:23 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Look, alright, you're not absolutely reflexively anti-Huntington. But you rarely have a good thing to say about Huntington's moves, and when there is uncertainty regarding whether the outcome of one will be positive or negative, you regularly side with the negative. In fact, other than the Wandy trade, I'm not aware of you ever praising NH for a move he made until the outcome has become certain. Sure, you can claim that you're being objective, but when you develop a regular pattern of negative commentary, it's easy to characterize you as being "in the tank" against Huntington, much like many of us think you are "in the tank" with Kovacevic.

My only comment was to note that if you are going to paint No. 9 as being "reflexively pro-Huntington" (which I think is unwarranted), then perhaps you should check yourself on that front. No. 9 is no more reflexive in his comments regarding NH than you are.


I was also effusively praising NH for the Andrew McCutchen extension. Effusively. At the time it was entered into.

And fair enough on No. 9 -- I've seen him be critical of NH. So neither of us are "reflexive" in our views.

And I will admit that, given the full context of his work, I am unlikely to give NH and his team the benefit of the doubt on a move. Why? Because of the lack of results he's gotten over the first five years of his tenure and because of the bad moves he's made, particularly at the MLB level. But I will certainly recognize his good moves.

Now, without Liriano, who had some potential to do well at PNC Park and out of the AL, the Pirates' rotation is looking MIGHTY THIN. Unless NH can bring in a solid #3-type starting pitcher, I'm seeing 70 wins as a stretch for this group...


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:38 pm 
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This might have been NH's best signing yet! :lol:
This organization is so funny.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:09 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
This might have been NH's best signing yet! :lol:
This organization is so funny.


And how is this Huntington's fault that Liriano got hurt?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:36 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
This might have been NH's best signing yet! :lol:
This organization is so funny.


Except that he never signed. That's why they give them physicals.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Just got it on good authority that the Pirates will be resigning Karstens.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:11 pm 
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rellimie wrote:
Just got it on good authority that the Pirates will be resigning Karstens.


That would be nice to see.

---

Per Liriano...

While these developments suck (it's a lazy word, but apt :) ), isn't it possible that this could be a 'good thing'?

Maybe this will drive down his price tag a little and the Bucs can still sign him for a little less now?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:25 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
Maybe this will drive down his price tag a little and the Bucs can still sign him for a little less now?


Has it come out yet as to what the injury actually is?

Maybe offer a one year deal for 2/3 the for this season with a performance option for the 2nd year at the value of what the 2nd year of his contract was supposed to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:28 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
Maybe this will drive down his price tag a little and the Bucs can still sign him for a little less now?


Has it come out yet as to what the injury actually is?


When I googled it the few articles that I read just kept saying it was an injury to his non-throwing arm (which he may have gotten over the holidays).

EDIT: But surely one of the capable people on this board can find or is aware of more...?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:32 pm 
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No news on this? How long does it take to evaluate an injury and determine length of recovery?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:23 am 
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buccosfan77 wrote:
No news on this? How long does it take to evaluate an injury and determine length of recovery?


According to Heyman we are still discussing a deal with his agent. I think Liriano is still out of the country so that would explain the lack of info.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:24 pm 
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I'm not sure why this is a deal breaker. I mean geez, Jim Abbott pitched well for years without a non-pitching arm.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:28 pm 
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:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:31 pm 
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doug frobel wrote:
I'm not sure why this is a deal breaker. I mean geez, Jim Abbott pitched well for years without a non-pitching arm.

Actually, Abbott still has two arms. It was the non-pitching hand that Abbott lacked.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:33 pm 
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Well he does have to swing a bat in the NL.... :? :? :?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Well he does have to swing a bat in the NL.... :? :? :?


Abbott hit .095 (2 for 21), with 3 RBI for his career...

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:48 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Well he does have to swing a bat in the NL.... :? :? :?


Abbott hit .095 (2 for 21), with 3 RBI for his career...


So.... similar to Barajas?




<sorry>

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates To Sign Francisco Liriano
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:35 am 
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Willton wrote:
doug frobel wrote:
I'm not sure why this is a deal breaker. I mean geez, Jim Abbott pitched well for years without a non-pitching arm.

Actually, Abbott still has two arms. It was the non-pitching hand that Abbott lacked.


True dat. My son played on a 13 and 14 year old team last year that had a young man who was born without a right hand. He was our leadoff hitter and could play anywhere on the diamond. Amazing to watch. He could catch and get rid of a ball faster with one hand than some could with two.


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