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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:31 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I would trade Cole for Stanton. We're not talking about Hee-Sop Choi here.


Maybe Jameson Taillon, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, and Kyle McPherson could get it done. I'd prefer to keep Cutch and Cole, sign Walker long-term, sign Stanton long term, and build around Cutch/Cole/Walker/Stanton/Pedro. How would this lineup look?

LF Tabata
2B Walker (S)
CF Cutch
RF Stanton
3B Alvarez (L)
1B Jones (L) / Sanchez
C McKenry
SS Barmes / Mercer / d'Arnaud

That's a legitimate 1-6, particularly if Tabata can get on base.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:07 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
I would trade Cole for Stanton. We're not talking about Hee-Sop Choi here.


Maybe Jameson Taillon, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, and Kyle McPherson could get it done. I'd prefer to keep Cutch and Cole, sign Walker long-term, sign Stanton long term, and build around Cutch/Cole/Walker/Stanton/Pedro. How would this lineup look?

LF Tabata
2B Walker (S)
CF Cutch
RF Stanton
3B Alvarez (L)
1B Jones (L) / Sanchez
C McKenry
SS Barmes / Mercer / d'Arnaud

That's a legitimate 1-6, particularly if Tabata can get on base.


Don't forget about the potential 20+ homer guy going into his 25 year old season in Snider.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:31 pm 
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JollyRoger wrote:
Don't forget about the potential 20+ homer guy going into his 25 year old season in Snider.


One home run in 128 at-bats with the Bucs doesn't bode well, my friend. Tabata had three home runs in 333 at-bats, which is actually a better pace. I don't hate Snider, but I don't see him as anything better than a potential platoon player. He beats the ball into the ground with his swing, and I'm wondering if his swing change to create more contact has robbed him of his fly ball percentage...


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:09 pm 
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One home run every 111 at bats does not bode well either, my friend. Plus Tabata does not have the speed you would want out of your leadoff hitter. Nor the on base percentage.

It's all fantasy anyways. Stanton ain't coming here.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:58 pm 
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It just gets worse, borderline criminal. Remember when MLB forced the Marlins to spend more? -

"Between 2002 and 2010, the Marlins reportedly received close to $300 million in revenue sharing. With the threat of a formal grievance, the Players Association forced an agreement from the Marlins to use all revenue-sharing proceeds on player development and salaries for three seasons. The agreement was announced in January 2010 and now, three seasons later, has expired. Imagine that." - Wendy Thurm

So Loria plans it all out, spends precisely what he has to and gets a 70% public funded stadium and immediately eliminates his payroll as soon as he can without MLB intervention. Bud has to throw this guy out.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I like your line up JC except for Tabata. I'd put Marte in the first spot instead of Tabata who I've pretty much given up on. Also, SS is still a big ? in my book, although if the rest of the line up can deliver, Barmes can do his thing on defense and contribute once in awhile on offense.

The Pirates also need at least one more solid starting pitcher.

Unfortunately, like Ralphie said, I can't see Stanton coming to the Pittsburgh although it sure would be great to see him in a Pirate uniform!

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:52 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Given this development -- and I'm dead serious about this -- the Pirates should go after Giancarlo Stanton. He actually tweeted that he was "pissed off" about the trade and he may have turned against the club. If I'm Neal Huntington, I'm offering the Marlins a collection of any players not named Andrew McCutchen or Gerrit Cole for Stanton right now.


Great idea.

No reason not to try.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:14 am 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Given this development -- and I'm dead serious about this -- the Pirates should go after Giancarlo Stanton. He actually tweeted that he was "pissed off" about the trade and he may have turned against the club. If I'm Neal Huntington, I'm offering the Marlins a collection of any players not named Andrew McCutchen or Gerrit Cole for Stanton right now.


Great idea.

No reason not to try.


The problem is that every team in baseball would want Stanton and his 4 years of team control. The price tag would be enormous, as JC suggested. LoMo would be more realistic and he does fit NH's love for former elite prospects that haven't broken through.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:33 pm 
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I'd hate to have to cheer for a d-bag like Logan Morrison.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:34 pm 
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bassoondirector wrote:
I like your line up JC except for Tabata. I'd put Marte in the first spot instead of Tabata who I've pretty much given up on. Also, SS is still a big ? in my book, although if the rest of the line up can deliver, Barmes can do his thing on defense and contribute once in awhile on offense.

The Pirates also need at least one more solid starting pitcher.

Unfortunately, like Ralphie said, I can't see Stanton coming to the Pittsburgh although it sure would be great to see him in a Pirate uniform!



In his hypothetical, he traded Marte for Stanton.


Even if the pricetag on Stanton would be enormous, I'd still inquire. He'd completely change the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:56 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
In his hypothetical, he traded Marte for Stanton.


Even if the pricetag on Stanton would be enormous, I'd still inquire. He'd completely change the team.


Absolutely. A nucleus of Cutch/Stanton/Pedro/Walker would be formidable.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:18 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
In his hypothetical, he traded Marte for Stanton.


Even if the pricetag on Stanton would be enormous, I'd still inquire. He'd completely change the team.


Absolutely. A nucleus of Cutch/Stanton/Pedro/Walker would be formidable.


It sure would be, but your proposed deal is an awful lot to pay - Jameson Taillon, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, and Kyle McPherson

That's 3 top 50 prospects in MLB and a back end SP all with 6 years of control. I don't think we have the kind of depth to make that kind of move (we certainly don't have the SP). This is the type of trade that Texas could afford, maybe a few others. It doesn't hurt to ask, maybe Loria is still in fire sale mode. If you can get Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes for no top 50 prospects who knows?

Anyway, Miami won't trade him this year since he is making 500k. They will wait until 2013 offseason when his 3 arbitration years are starting. His value then drops since he will get $30-40 million for those 3 years. Of course they could extend him, then trade him which would really piss Miami off.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:22 pm 
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I really wouldn't mind giving up Taillon in a deal like that and as far as Marte is concerned, I love Marte but he's not Gianmike Stanton and never will be. I'd let Marte stay on my couch until he finds a place if that's what it would take to get that deal done.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:35 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
In his hypothetical, he traded Marte for Stanton.


Even if the pricetag on Stanton would be enormous, I'd still inquire. He'd completely change the team.


Absolutely. A nucleus of Cutch/Stanton/Pedro/Walker would be formidable.


It sure would be, but your proposed deal is an awful lot to pay - Jameson Taillon, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, and Kyle McPherson

That's 3 top 50 prospects in MLB and a back end SP all with 6 years of control. I don't think we have the kind of depth to make that kind of move (we certainly don't have the SP). This is the type of trade that Texas could afford, maybe a few others. It doesn't hurt to ask, maybe Loria is still in fire sale mode. If you can get Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes for no top 50 prospects who knows?


Would you seriously balk at that deal? I'd do it in a heartbeat. We're talking about a 23-year-old slugger who has the potential to lead the league in HRs multiple years. Pay up.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
NSMaster56 wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Given this development -- and I'm dead serious about this -- the Pirates should go after Giancarlo Stanton. He actually tweeted that he was "pissed off" about the trade and he may have turned against the club. If I'm Neal Huntington, I'm offering the Marlins a collection of any players not named Andrew McCutchen or Gerrit Cole for Stanton right now.


Great idea.

No reason not to try.


The problem is that every team in baseball would want Stanton and his 4 years of team control. The price tag would be enormous, as JC suggested. LoMo would be more realistic and he does fit NH's love for former elite prospects that haven't broken through.


Morrison would be an alright add for cheap. An A+ or AA arm plus a Gorkys type.

Otherwise, Stanton would be worth the price tag.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:11 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Would you seriously balk at that deal? I'd do it in a heartbeat. We're talking about a 23-year-old slugger who has the potential to lead the league in HRs multiple years. Pay up.


Absolutely do that deal.

The $$$ saved by keeping Stanton on the cheap (even when he went to arb his pricetag would be a fraction compared to 'market price') could be spent on pitching.

Besides, Cole would still be in the fold, as would others (Wilson, Locke, etc.)

Plus, you know, the lineup with Stanton in it would put runs on the board, asses in seats and dollars in Nutting's pockets!

Still, BD is probably right. The Phish will retain poor Stanton until his tag does go up.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:29 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:

Absolutely. A nucleus of Cutch/Stanton/Pedro/Walker would be formidable.


It sure would be, but your proposed deal is an awful lot to pay - Jameson Taillon, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, and Kyle McPherson

That's 3 top 50 prospects in MLB and a back end SP all with 6 years of control. I don't think we have the kind of depth to make that kind of move (we certainly don't have the SP). This is the type of trade that Texas could afford, maybe a few others. It doesn't hurt to ask, maybe Loria is still in fire sale mode. If you can get Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes for no top 50 prospects who knows?


Would you seriously balk at that deal? I'd do it in a heartbeat. We're talking about a 23-year-old slugger who has the potential to lead the league in HRs multiple years. Pay up.


Count me in the minority, I would not trade that much for him. I just don't think that trading multiple high quality parts for a quick fix is a sustainable strategy for the Pirates under the current rules. I understand the desire to add a star player, but I feel that it is mostly wishful thinking.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:40 pm 
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A quick fix? This isn't getting a year of, say, Adam Dunn. This would be trading a bunch of prospects for a guy that you would dream even one of your prospects would turn out to be. That was a tortured sentence. And you'd have him for 6 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:31 pm 
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SUPERCHARGED APE wrote:
A quick fix? This isn't getting a year of, say, Adam Dunn. This would be trading a bunch of prospects for a guy that you would dream even one of your prospects would turn out to be. That was a tortured sentence. And you'd have him for 6 years.


You would have him for 4 years instead of a potential #1,2 SP, a #3-4 SP, a 3-4 WAR OF, and a top 30 or 40 prospect in MLB all of which you do have for 6+ years and about $40 million in salary. I understand the deal fully, Stanton is a 6 WAR OF with the most power in MLB. I would keep the four players and the money that can be spent elsewhere. We have too many needs to focus talent on one position. We don't have the type of system depth that could compensate for the losses at the top. For me, the 4 wins we would get over Tabata/Snider in RF isn't worth giving up the potential 5 to 7 wins on the mound. You keep the cheap prospects and spend $40 million a a free agent that can give another 3 wins and you are far ahead to pass on one star. There also is the risk with Stanton regarding his 29% K rate, we have seen how far south a guy can go with so much swing and miss in his game.

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 Post subject: Re: Blue Jays/Marlins possible blockbuster
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:24 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
J_C_Steel wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
It sure would be, but your proposed deal is an awful lot to pay - Jameson Taillon, Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, and Kyle McPherson

That's 3 top 50 prospects in MLB and a back end SP all with 6 years of control. I don't think we have the kind of depth to make that kind of move (we certainly don't have the SP). This is the type of trade that Texas could afford, maybe a few others. It doesn't hurt to ask, maybe Loria is still in fire sale mode. If you can get Josh Johnson and Jose Reyes for no top 50 prospects who knows?


Would you seriously balk at that deal? I'd do it in a heartbeat. We're talking about a 23-year-old slugger who has the potential to lead the league in HRs multiple years. Pay up.


Count me in the minority, I would not trade that much for him. I just don't think that trading multiple high quality parts for a quick fix is a sustainable strategy for the Pirates under the current rules. I understand the desire to add a star player, but I feel that it is mostly wishful thinking.


I get what you're saying about having too many holes. We've got a lot, possibly because we have a lot of marginal players in them. And I hate Ks, so count me old fashioned in that regard.

But... Any number of prospects aren't worth a quality player. Until Taillon, Cole, Marte etc have proven they belong in the majors, they're just pipe dreams. Youth potential doesn't win you a lot of games.

Now, if it was me, I would build pitching first. I don't pay a lot of attention to the minors, but we'd need half a dozen Coles and Taillons in the minors to be able to build that way. We've got two, so if only one of them grows up to become a stud major leaguer, we ought to be happy.

There's another we need that we have. We need a true #2 bat in the lineup. We lived through 2 late season collapses with Walker and Pedro as our #2 and #3 hitters. They need to be our third and fourth best hitters.

If we can trade prospects (or as I used to call prospects in the real estate industry: suspects) for a true quality hitter, who we'd have for four years, then I say do it.


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