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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:44 pm 
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Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
They have legit beef there. Who ever heard of the infield fly roll on a ball 225 feet from home plate? That was just an error and the Braves should of had the bases loaded with one out.

I have. I've seen it many times.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:47 pm 
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MoTownWV wrote:
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
They have legit beef there. Who ever heard of the infield fly roll on a ball 225 feet from home plate? That was just an error and the Braves should of had the bases loaded with one out.


That call reinforces my belief that a one game playoff is the stupidest concept ever. Too many freak things can decide the outcome. I'd have no problem with a 3 game series but I hate the one game concept.

If you don't want to play in a single game playoff, win your division. The opportunity to play in a one game playoff to get a post season spot that you failed to earn after 162 games is something that you should be grateful for.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:04 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
MoTownWV wrote:
That call reinforces my belief that a one game playoff is the stupidest concept ever. Too many freak things can decide the outcome. I'd have no problem with a 3 game series but I hate the one game concept.

If you don't want to play in a single game playoff, win your division. The opportunity to play in a one game playoff to get a post season spot that you failed to earn after 162 games is something that you should be grateful for.

I've come around to this way of thinking. By having two wild card teams, they actual division winners get the advantage in that one of these two wild cards is going home veeeerrrrrry early. I like it.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:59 am 
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That call didn't lose them the game....the 3 errors did......including one by Larry.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:23 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
MoTownWV wrote:
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
They have legit beef there. Who ever heard of the infield fly roll on a ball 225 feet from home plate? That was just an error and the Braves should of had the bases loaded with one out.


That call reinforces my belief that a one game playoff is the stupidest concept ever. Too many freak things can decide the outcome. I'd have no problem with a 3 game series but I hate the one game concept.

If you don't want to play in a single game playoff, win your division. The opportunity to play in a one game playoff to get a post season spot that you failed to earn after 162 games is something that you should be grateful for.


Agreed, I like this format that brings the emphasis back on winning the division.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:57 pm 
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Disagree. It's easy to say to win your division, but what if you are in a division with a powerhouse team and the rest of the divisions suck. You could easily be the second best team in baseball and get screwed in the one game deal. Although I too like rewarding the division winners, this goes too far. I would love to see a five game wild card series, a 7 game division series, 7 game championship series and a 7 game World Series. And please don't tell me it can't be done. If they really wanted to make the playoffs legit, they could.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:19 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Disagree. It's easy to say to win your division, but what if you are in a division with a powerhouse team and the rest of the divisions suck. You could easily be the second best team in baseball and get screwed in the one game deal. Although I too like rewarding the division winners, this goes too far. I would love to see a five game wild card series, a 7 game division series, 7 game championship series and a 7 game World Series. And please don't tell me it can't be done. If they really wanted to make the playoffs legit, they could.

If they insist on expanding the playoffs so that a bunch of mediocre teams can "stay in it" and keep "fan interest", then they should go with the system BB is talking about. And shorten the regular season.

I'm not big on change so maybe that is why I don't like this system. I still would rather see 2 divisions and the winners go to the playoffs. I know...way too "old school", but that's me. Knowing that isn't going to happen then I would prefer the 1 wildcard system they had up until this year. That allows for the provision BB mentions about being in a tough division, etc. Not only does it eliminate this ridiculous all or nothing, contrived playoff game but it would return home field advantage to a normal set up. This year you get the 2-3 set up and if you lose two on the road then yes, you get the rest at home, but you are playing with your back against the wall. Hardly an advantage. And lastly it doesn't bring .500 teams into the playoff mix coming down to the last couple weeks. At .500 in a long season like baseball, you don't deserve to be in the playoff chase.

If you are going to have wild cards do it right. The Braves won 94 games. Only 3 teams had better records in all of baseball. They deserved more than a one game, all or nothing shot. They earned that much after 162 games. Of course Bud Selig is at the helm so I don't know why I'm surprised by this stupidity...


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:31 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
If they insist on expanding the playoffs so that a bunch of mediocre teams can "stay in it" and keep "fan interest", then they should go with the system BB is talking about. And shorten the regular season.

I'm not big on change so maybe that is why I don't like this system. I still would rather see 2 divisions and the winners go to the playoffs. I know...way too "old school", but that's me. Knowing that isn't going to happen then I would prefer the 1 wildcard system they had up until this year. That allows for the provision BB mentions about being in a tough division, etc. Not only does it eliminate this ridiculous all or nothing, contrived playoff game but it would return home field advantage to a normal set up. This year you get the 2-3 set up and if you lose two on the road then yes, you get the rest at home, but you are playing with your back against the wall. Hardly an advantage. And lastly it doesn't bring .500 teams into the playoff mix coming down to the last couple weeks. At .500 in a long season like baseball, you don't deserve to be in the playoff chase.

If you are going to have wild cards do it right. The Braves won 94 games. Only 3 teams had better records in all of baseball. They deserved more than a one game, all or nothing shot. They earned that much after 162 games. Of course Bud Selig is at the helm so I don't know why I'm surprised by this stupidity...


Hear hear!

Of course they ain't shortening the season. Not unless everyone in baseball wants to start making less money.

While one of the things I love about baseball is the length of a 162 game season, I don't buy the Braves-won-94-games argument. The reason we have playoffs, as opposed to just awarding the title to the winningest team is that all the 94 wins does is get you entree into the playoffs. I know that a single game playoff is jarring, but three other teams faced the same challenge. And in the case of the Pirates, I would have loved to have gotten those stakes....


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:25 am 
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The 1954 Yankees won 103 ballgames and finished 8 games behind the Indians. So great teams missing the playoffs has happened.

I would also argue that the 1 game play in has existed since the dawn of time in the case of certain ties. While the context of that situation has changed, it's hardly revolutionary. I have no issue with it.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:32 am 
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Rochester wrote:
The 1954 Yankees won 103 ballgames and finished 8 games behind the Indians. So great teams missing the playoffs has happened.

I would also argue that the 1 game play in has existed since the dawn of time in the case of certain ties. While the context of that situation has changed, it's hardly revolutionary. I have no issue with it.

So, maybe I missed it, but you seem to be only one who came away a winner this season. What beer did your partner end up getting you?


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:36 am 
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val wrote:
Rochester wrote:
The 1954 Yankees won 103 ballgames and finished 8 games behind the Indians. So great teams missing the playoffs has happened.

I would also argue that the 1 game play in has existed since the dawn of time in the case of certain ties. While the context of that situation has changed, it's hardly revolutionary. I have no issue with it.

So, maybe I missed it, but you seem to be only one who came away a winner this season. What beer did your partner end up getting you?


Ha! True story. We haven't gotten to the store yet, but thanks for asking :)

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:45 am 
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I too liked the old format with 3 divisions and 1 wildcard. It had great symmetry and fairness. This format does not.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:20 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
I too liked the old format with 3 divisions and 1 wildcard. It had great symmetry and fairness. This format does not.


The old format was unfair to division winners. If a WC gets the same chance to advance then why try and win the division.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:42 pm 
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The simple answer really is having only 2 divisions (and 2 WC's).

That would incentive winning [a/the division] without 'cheapening it' (it would lessen, if not totally eliminate, the likelihood of division winners w/ lower W-L than WC's).

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:46 pm 
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I don't put any special weight on winning the division. If you were one of the four best teams you qualified for the playoff tournament, period. Actually it's not quite that simple but most years it probably worked out that way.

As it is now a division winner with a worse record has a big advantage over a wild card team with a better record. For example Detroit vs. Texas.

The NBA and NHL place no special weight on winning the division and I don't hear people complaining about that.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:53 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I don't put any special weight on winning the division. If you were one of the four best teams you qualified for the playoff tournament, period. Actually it's not quite that simple but most years it probably worked out that way.

As it is now a division winner with a worse record has a big advantage over a wild card team with a better record. For example Detroit vs. Texas.

The NBA and NHL place no special weight on winning the division and I don't hear people complaining about that.


The NHL does, it seeds the division winners #1-3 (regardless of other team's records) and has an imbalanced schedule like baseball with more intradivisional games. Pit played Philly in round 1 last year because of divisional seeding (#4 vs #5). They both had more points than Florida or Boston. Pit would have been the 2 seed based on points only and Philly would have been the #3 seed..

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Yes they seed the division winners higher but everybody has to lose 4 games to be eliminated, not just 1.


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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:14 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Disagree. It's easy to say to win your division, but what if you are in a division with a powerhouse team and the rest of the divisions suck.

Tough luck. Get better. How do you think American League fans felt having their favorite teams deal with 40+ years of Yankee dominance?

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You could easily be the second best team in baseball and get screwed in the one game deal. Although I too like rewarding the division winners, this goes too far. I would love to see a five game wild card series, a 7 game division series, 7 game championship series and a 7 game World Series. And please don't tell me it can't be done. If they really wanted to make the playoffs legit, they could.

Right, they could play until Thanksgiving, or start the season in mid-March, because there isn't a chance in hell that they're going to shorten the season.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:31 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Disagree. It's easy to say to win your division, but what if you are in a division with a powerhouse team and the rest of the divisions suck.

Tough luck. Get better. How do you think American League fans felt having their favorite teams deal with 40+ years of Yankee dominance?


Sis, you're a smart fella, so I feel compelled to ask:

Why should geography determine what teams are best when there are 162 games which decide just that?

The fact that Tampa/St. Pete is located in Florida and/or that Anaheim is located in California and not Iowa should not affect their postseason positioning.

In a two-division format, Detroit would have been playing for nothing.

And such is not an uncommon occurence in MLB or other sports (2010 7-9 Seahawks over 10-6 Bucs and Giants), either.

Placing teams in geographic regions for scheduling purposes makes a world of sense, but to allow that advantage, or lackthereof, to allow for potentially 'inferior' teams to make it over demonstratably 'better' teams does point to holes in any playoff system.

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 Post subject: Re: I feel really bad about that call on the Braves...
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:37 pm 
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NSMaster56 wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
Disagree. It's easy to say to win your division, but what if you are in a division with a powerhouse team and the rest of the divisions suck.

Tough luck. Get better. How do you think American League fans felt having their favorite teams deal with 40+ years of Yankee dominance?


Sis, you're a smart fella, so I feel compelled to ask:

Why should geography determine what teams are best when there are 162 games which decide just that?

The fact that Tampa/St. Pete is located in Florida and/or that Anaheim is located in California and not Iowa should not affect their postseason positioning.

In a two-division format, Detroit would have been playing for nothing.

And such is not an uncommon occurence in MLB or other sports (2010 7-9 Seahawks over 10-6 Bucs and Giants), either.

Placing teams in geographic regions for scheduling purposes makes a world of sense, but to allow that advantage, or lackthereof, to allow for potentially 'inferior' teams to make it over demonstratably 'better' teams does point to holes in any playoff system.

I don't really care how they divide things up. The only truly fair way to determine a champion is to throw all 30 teams into a single league, play a 100% balanced schedule, and give the championship to the team with the best record at the end of the season. That wouldn't happen in a million years, nor should it. You'd have about 20 teams that couldn't sell tickets by the end of June.

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