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 Post subject: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:56 am 
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I keep reading how Cole should be sent down when AJ and Wandy get back. I am not down with sending your second or third best pitcher out of the rotation to maintain depth. I think the better solution is to go to a 6 man rotation. It makes all the sense in the world.

Burnett-Wandy-Cole-Locke-Morton-Liriano.....Gomez back to long relief.

Burnett, Liriano, & Wandy are both up there in age and as the season hits the final month or two I would rather those three aren't hitting a wall. Liriano got a late start to the season, so the inning count shouldn't be a big deal with him, but he is no spring chicken.

Morton is coming off Tommy John and not throwing as many innings should aid him in his comeback from surgery/rehab. Morton does a nice job vs. the Reds so would like to see him get one start in most series vs. them, but there is no way 'baseball wise' that keeping Morton in the rotation and sending Cole to AAA helps the PBC other than 'depth', just in case someone gets hurt. Cole gives you better odds to win a ballgame over Morton so you gotta keep Cole.

Cole and Locke are both younger guys who you really won't know how they will deal with the final month or two of the season and how the innings totals will effect them. I would rather go on the light side their first seasons then risk overworking them so they fade down the stretch. Who knows. Would hate to get into the playoffs and not have gas in the tank.

Going with the 6 man rotation keeps everyone stretched out and contributing on the big club. If a SP suffers injury, then you simply go back to a 5 man rotation or if the 6 man is working out you still have Cumpton, possibly JMac, that could be plugged in.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:12 am 
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Has it ever been done with success?

One thing to consider is that you're going to shorten either your bullpen or your bench if you go that route.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:46 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
Has it ever been done with success?

One thing to consider is that you're going to shorten either your bullpen or your bench if you go that route.


The sixth starter can probably hit as well as Brandon Inge or John MacDonald- the guys we've had at the end of the bench, so we'd hardly notice the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:28 pm 
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Seems like the options are either:

A) Send Cole to AAA so you can keep a lesser pitcher in Morton in the rotation, but you will have 'depth' if someone gets hurt. So take possibly your best pitcher and send him to AAA so you can maintain depth. This doesn't make sense to me to weaken the 5 man rotation for the hypothetical 'if someone gets hurt'.....

B) Go to a 6 man rotation, which will take a man out of the bullpen. Seems there are more moving parts here. Would rather have to shuffle Reid, Welker, etc. back and forth between AAA to keep a fresh bullpen than to ship your potential best starting pitcher to AAA.

C) Inge is cut, bullpen still has the same depth, and you go to a 6 man rotation. I think with the mix of older pitchers, and younger pitchers, I would go the route of either B or C.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:31 pm 
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2 responses other than myself to a huge looming decision? This place is real lively.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:53 pm 
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Hard to write much when mobile. I wouldn't hate a 6 man rotation for a bit until someone pitched themselves out of it

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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:12 am 
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I suggested that a few days ago...

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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:21 am 
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The 6th best SP'er does not make the team better by delaying starts by five better pitchers, and by taking a roster spot that would otherwise be held by a bat.

The real improvement would come from replacing Inge with somebody who can actually hit.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:54 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
The 6th best SP'er does not make the team better by delaying starts by five better pitchers, and by taking a roster spot that would otherwise be held by a bat.

The real improvement would come from replacing Inge with somebody who can actually hit.


Not that simple. Cole is easily better than Morton. And as is mentioned, you could argue for all 6 that less of a workload would benefit them.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:03 am 
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Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Cole is easily better than Morton.


Probably, but a very small sample size. Cole and Locke are the only pitchers with options. Cole goes down and misses a couple of starts... best move possible. Anything else is foolish, and simply a move based on passion and not purely on baseball. Fans will bitch and whine, but sending Cole down for a few weeks is absolutely the prudent thing to do.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:11 am 
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Charleston_Charlies wrote:
Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
Cole is easily better than Morton.


Probably, but a very small sample size. Cole and Locke are the only pitchers with options. Cole goes down and misses a couple of starts... best move possible. Anything else is foolish, and simply a move based on passion and not purely on baseball. Fans will bitch and whine, but sending Cole down for a few weeks is absolutely the prudent thing to do.

Sending one of your 5 best pitchers to the minors in the middle of a pennant chase doesn't seem like a good baseball move.

As has been stated already, things will probably shake out on their own. With AJ and Wandy still hurt a 6 man rotation isn't even a thought right now. If, and that is a big if, everyone keeps pitching fairly close to the level they've been pitching this season then this is one of the few times I think a 6 man rotation might just work. Normally I agree with Bucfan that you don't want to hold back your best pitchers a day per cycle, but this situation may be different.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:28 pm 
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It's June. Pennant race starts in August.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:38 pm 
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You can't win the pennant in June, but you sure can lose it. Cole has to stay until he shows that he isn't ready. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a move other than a trip to Indy.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:44 pm 
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Charleston_Charlies wrote:
It's June. Pennant race starts in August.


What ParrotLuv said.

Games won in June count the same as games won in August. Every game from here on it is important.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:45 pm 
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ParrotLuv wrote:
You can't win the pennant in June, but you sure can lose it. Cole has to stay until he shows that he isn't ready. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a move other than a trip to Indy.


But who is he pitching better than? Yeah, he's showing he can hang but he's not currently producing far and away better than the other options. You can't ditch Wandy, Morton's numbers are strong and he leads the league in GB%, he's more talented than Locke but you can't take him out, and Liriano/AJ are no brainers to stick.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:57 pm 
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This is what I see happening. Gomez comes back for tomorrow's game, replacing Cumpton. That makes the rotation Locke, Gomez, Cole, Liriano, Morton. Wandy comes back this week like he's supposed to, and pushes Gomez to the pen. While they wait for AJ to return, Cole and Morton basically fight for the last spot (maybe 2 more games each before AJ is ready). When AJ comes back, either Morton joins Gomez in the pen or Cole is sent back to AAA. It doesn't have to be complicated.

I don't like the 6 man rotation when the bullpen has been used heavily and there's room in there for better pitchers.


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:15 pm 
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StarlingArcher wrote:
ParrotLuv wrote:
You can't win the pennant in June, but you sure can lose it. Cole has to stay until he shows that he isn't ready. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a move other than a trip to Indy.


But who is he pitching better than? Yeah, he's showing he can hang but he's not currently producing far and away better than the other options. You can't ditch Wandy, Morton's numbers are strong and he leads the league in GB%, he's more talented than Locke but you can't take him out, and Liriano/AJ are no brainers to stick.


Didn't Morton just give up 5 in an inning?


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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Mister Pittsburgh wrote:
StarlingArcher wrote:
ParrotLuv wrote:
You can't win the pennant in June, but you sure can lose it. Cole has to stay until he shows that he isn't ready. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a move other than a trip to Indy.


But who is he pitching better than? Yeah, he's showing he can hang but he's not currently producing far and away better than the other options. You can't ditch Wandy, Morton's numbers are strong and he leads the league in GB%, he's more talented than Locke but you can't take him out, and Liriano/AJ are no brainers to stick.


Didn't Morton just give up 5 in an inning?


Only 2 earned. 3 Errors and a brain fart by Mercer allowed a few of those in.

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 Post subject: Re: 6 man rotation
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:34 pm 
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Just over two months ago .... funny how things evolve sometimes.

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